1 00:00:05,110 --> 00:00:02,230 yeah now are you is there anything off 2 00:00:07,269 --> 00:00:05,120 limits uh jim like luella zondo is that 3 00:00:10,310 --> 00:00:07,279 okay to talk about or 4 00:00:12,310 --> 00:00:10,320 oh no losing a great guy we we lou chris 5 00:00:13,589 --> 00:00:12,320 we're all buddies and and we we talk a 6 00:00:15,669 --> 00:00:13,599 lot i haven't talked to lou though in 7 00:00:17,189 --> 00:00:15,679 about a month chris smelling and i 8 00:00:20,070 --> 00:00:17,199 probably every every few days we're 9 00:00:23,109 --> 00:00:20,080 exchanging emails so uh-huh okay 10 00:00:25,670 --> 00:00:23,119 the only thing i can get into is um 11 00:00:27,189 --> 00:00:25,680 any any detailed questions on cia what 12 00:00:28,070 --> 00:00:27,199 cia is doing 13 00:00:30,470 --> 00:00:28,080 sure 14 00:00:32,229 --> 00:00:30,480 half my questions man 15 00:00:34,549 --> 00:00:32,239 yeah right i mean i mean that's why i 16 00:00:36,950 --> 00:00:34,559 have it on a lot of these shows i i mean 17 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:36,960 i don't i don't like saying things like 18 00:00:41,990 --> 00:00:38,800 i can't talk about it i can't tell you 19 00:00:44,790 --> 00:00:42,000 it just sounds so awful right and uh 20 00:00:48,229 --> 00:00:44,800 so i've tried to avoid it but 21 00:00:50,549 --> 00:00:48,239 and as much as possible 22 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:50,559 jim you also mentioned that 23 00:00:54,229 --> 00:00:51,360 both 24 00:00:57,270 --> 00:00:54,239 brian and myself come recommended 25 00:01:02,069 --> 00:01:00,470 just friends of mine in the community uh 26 00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:02,079 i mean you know i'm not talking any 27 00:01:05,429 --> 00:01:03,680 senior government officials saying let's 28 00:01:06,950 --> 00:01:05,439 listen to these guys but now just 29 00:01:08,310 --> 00:01:06,960 friends in the community it's they said 30 00:01:09,990 --> 00:01:08,320 that you know if you're going to get on 31 00:01:12,070 --> 00:01:10,000 something you want to do something with 32 00:01:14,710 --> 00:01:12,080 uh you know credibility and good 33 00:01:17,109 --> 00:01:14,720 reputation this is where you want to go 34 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:17,119 wow wow wow that's a huge huge 35 00:01:19,429 --> 00:01:18,640 compliment 36 00:01:21,830 --> 00:01:19,439 but 37 00:01:23,910 --> 00:01:21,840 you know it's i think it's true so yeah 38 00:01:26,230 --> 00:01:23,920 and now it's it and brian i i heard of 39 00:01:28,469 --> 00:01:26,240 you too a long time ago you know i 40 00:01:30,310 --> 00:01:28,479 actually did a recruiting uh session out 41 00:01:31,350 --> 00:01:30,320 at university of california san diego 42 00:01:33,429 --> 00:01:31,360 back in 43 00:01:36,230 --> 00:01:33,439 i think 2 000 and 44 00:01:37,270 --> 00:01:36,240 gosh one or two 45 00:01:40,149 --> 00:01:37,280 yeah 46 00:01:41,749 --> 00:01:40,159 oh cool i was under a name i was using a 47 00:01:43,109 --> 00:01:41,759 fake name 48 00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:43,119 you know and 49 00:01:47,109 --> 00:01:45,040 i was recruiting for the clandestine 50 00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:47,119 service and uh what a great group of 51 00:01:50,630 --> 00:01:48,960 students you had though yeah we have 52 00:01:53,670 --> 00:01:50,640 some great students and good patriots 53 00:01:55,429 --> 00:01:53,680 there yeah that's really great i'm glad 54 00:01:57,190 --> 00:01:55,439 to glad to hear that next time you're in 55 00:02:01,030 --> 00:01:57,200 town let me know or next time i come out 56 00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:02,230 we'll be ready to go so what we're going 57 00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:03,200 to do 58 00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:05,280 is uh we're going to introduce ourselves 59 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:07,280 we're going to talk a little philosophy 60 00:02:11,750 --> 00:02:09,679 uh so i'll start first kurt will go next 61 00:02:13,670 --> 00:02:11,760 jim will go next and then you go 62 00:02:15,190 --> 00:02:13,680 and like kind of what your mission is in 63 00:02:17,350 --> 00:02:15,200 life and kind of description how you got 64 00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:17,360 involved in this i'll say some words of 65 00:02:21,589 --> 00:02:19,760 platitudes in the beginning and you know 66 00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:21,599 our goal is to be discuss things not 67 00:02:25,670 --> 00:02:23,280 debate i think debate is pointless 68 00:02:26,949 --> 00:02:25,680 people get all admired in in accusations 69 00:02:29,350 --> 00:02:26,959 and whatever so i just want to have it 70 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:29,360 be high level discussion for the benefit 71 00:02:32,229 --> 00:02:31,200 of humanity okay 72 00:02:33,910 --> 00:02:32,239 okay 73 00:02:36,710 --> 00:02:33,920 all right man so we're going to go live 74 00:02:38,470 --> 00:02:36,720 if i can get this all set up 75 00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:38,480 preparing this meeting as being live 76 00:02:42,550 --> 00:02:40,640 stream got it yep 77 00:02:44,390 --> 00:02:42,560 hopefully this will work 78 00:02:46,630 --> 00:02:44,400 and we'll shoot out to the internet kirk 79 00:02:50,150 --> 00:02:46,640 can you check the live stream is working 80 00:02:56,309 --> 00:02:52,790 it'll take approximately 15 seconds 81 00:02:58,790 --> 00:02:56,319 welcome everybody to a very special 82 00:03:00,390 --> 00:02:58,800 conversation between 83 00:03:01,430 --> 00:03:00,400 three of my friends 84 00:03:04,309 --> 00:03:01,440 some more 85 00:03:05,190 --> 00:03:04,319 uh older friends than uh than others but 86 00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:05,200 we are 87 00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:07,280 undergoing a debate a conversation 88 00:03:11,509 --> 00:03:09,040 rather not a debate i think most debates 89 00:03:12,550 --> 00:03:11,519 are pointless uh but discussion is very 90 00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:12,560 valuable 91 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:14,480 and we've had a lot of interest in 92 00:03:18,070 --> 00:03:16,640 getting together members 93 00:03:20,390 --> 00:03:18,080 of different communities communities 94 00:03:22,470 --> 00:03:20,400 from academia represented by me from the 95 00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:22,480 military represented by jim or the the 96 00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:25,200 government from by jim and from lay 97 00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:27,040 people who have really been responsible 98 00:03:31,910 --> 00:03:29,440 for getting this excitement this 99 00:03:33,270 --> 00:03:31,920 attention that this subject needs out to 100 00:03:35,589 --> 00:03:33,280 the public and of course that's speaking 101 00:03:37,670 --> 00:03:35,599 of tom delong who's joining us from to 102 00:03:39,270 --> 00:03:37,680 the stars academy 103 00:03:42,149 --> 00:03:39,280 now jim is joining us from the east 104 00:03:43,830 --> 00:03:42,159 coast jim uh seven and my friend kurt 105 00:03:45,670 --> 00:03:43,840 jaymungal who runs a wonderful channel 106 00:03:47,430 --> 00:03:45,680 which you should all subscribe to call 107 00:03:49,430 --> 00:03:47,440 theories of everything i've been a guest 108 00:03:51,589 --> 00:03:49,440 many other guests had on people from 109 00:03:54,070 --> 00:03:51,599 louie elizondo to many others in this 110 00:03:55,990 --> 00:03:54,080 community i'm more of a neophyte novice 111 00:03:58,149 --> 00:03:56,000 and i'm more interested in 112 00:03:59,509 --> 00:03:58,159 doing what galileo said so my hero as 113 00:04:01,670 --> 00:03:59,519 everybody knows who subscribes to my 114 00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:01,680 channel is galileo galilei here's a 115 00:04:05,270 --> 00:04:03,760 finger puppet we're gonna get one of tom 116 00:04:07,830 --> 00:04:05,280 and jim at some point 117 00:04:10,390 --> 00:04:07,840 galileo said uh let us measure what is 118 00:04:12,390 --> 00:04:10,400 measurable and make measurable what is 119 00:04:14,309 --> 00:04:12,400 not and i'm pleased to say i have become 120 00:04:17,189 --> 00:04:14,319 a member of the galileo project at 121 00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:17,199 harvard university which just started 122 00:04:20,870 --> 00:04:19,120 just about a couple weeks ago i'm on 123 00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:20,880 their scientific advisory board and i 124 00:04:24,790 --> 00:04:22,320 joined that not because i have so much 125 00:04:26,550 --> 00:04:24,800 free time as the chancellor's professor 126 00:04:27,990 --> 00:04:26,560 of physics at uc san diego and the 127 00:04:29,670 --> 00:04:28,000 co-director of the arthur c clarke 128 00:04:31,590 --> 00:04:29,680 center for human imagination but because 129 00:04:33,510 --> 00:04:31,600 i think this is a very very important 130 00:04:35,110 --> 00:04:33,520 subject not the least of which because i 131 00:04:37,590 --> 00:04:35,120 hope to learn some of the physics of the 132 00:04:39,749 --> 00:04:37,600 advanced future if indeed we are being 133 00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:39,759 visited by a an advanced 134 00:04:45,189 --> 00:04:42,240 extraterrestrial civilization or perhaps 135 00:04:46,790 --> 00:04:45,199 as tom calls them threats in either case 136 00:04:48,230 --> 00:04:46,800 i think it's fascinating so i'd love to 137 00:04:51,749 --> 00:04:48,240 introduce today 138 00:04:53,830 --> 00:04:51,759 my guest and uh first to confirm that uh 139 00:04:54,790 --> 00:04:53,840 my friend kurt is out there and he can 140 00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:54,800 hear us 141 00:04:59,430 --> 00:04:57,199 kurt can you please uh can you please 142 00:05:01,110 --> 00:04:59,440 introduce yourself in your channel 143 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:01,120 sure my name is kurt jaimungle i'm a 144 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:03,520 filmmaker with a background in math and 145 00:05:06,710 --> 00:05:05,360 physics i'm particularly interested in 146 00:05:09,029 --> 00:05:06,720 the theoretical ends of physics 147 00:05:10,629 --> 00:05:09,039 something called theories of everything 148 00:05:13,189 --> 00:05:10,639 the channel that i host podcasts on is 149 00:05:14,790 --> 00:05:13,199 called theories of everything 150 00:05:17,110 --> 00:05:14,800 essentially what are the fundamental 151 00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:17,120 laws of the universe investigating that 152 00:05:20,950 --> 00:05:18,800 as well as the possible connection those 153 00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:20,960 laws have to consciousness and free will 154 00:05:24,150 --> 00:05:22,240 and even god 155 00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:24,160 my interest in ufos is because there 156 00:05:29,110 --> 00:05:26,000 seems to be an intimate tie between ufos 157 00:05:31,189 --> 00:05:29,120 and consciousness there's almost a 158 00:05:32,790 --> 00:05:31,199 direct tie between physics and ufos 159 00:05:35,029 --> 00:05:32,800 because they defy 160 00:05:36,629 --> 00:05:35,039 our known laws and i'm interested in it 161 00:05:39,029 --> 00:05:36,639 i happen to think that innovation will 162 00:05:40,629 --> 00:05:39,039 come from the fringes rather than the 163 00:05:42,150 --> 00:05:40,639 the center or at least be informed by 164 00:05:44,070 --> 00:05:42,160 the fringes 165 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:44,080 yeah thank you kurt and i want to remind 166 00:05:47,590 --> 00:05:46,000 people who want to leave questions 167 00:05:49,350 --> 00:05:47,600 please put it in the live chat we are 168 00:05:52,629 --> 00:05:49,360 live it is thursday 169 00:05:55,110 --> 00:05:52,639 2 38 p.m in the pacific time zone 170 00:05:57,590 --> 00:05:55,120 next up is jim a semi-van who has a very 171 00:05:59,909 --> 00:05:57,600 very impressive biography but i thought 172 00:06:01,670 --> 00:05:59,919 maybe he could introduce himself and 173 00:06:03,510 --> 00:06:01,680 talk about maybe how he came to come to 174 00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:03,520 know tom 175 00:06:06,469 --> 00:06:05,120 oh well thank you very much and thank 176 00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:06,479 you very much for having me on your 177 00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:09,120 program um i've heard about you and uh 178 00:06:11,909 --> 00:06:11,039 i'm really happy to be here 179 00:06:14,629 --> 00:06:11,919 um 180 00:06:17,909 --> 00:06:14,639 i i met tom gosh what it was about five 181 00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:17,919 years ago tom um 182 00:06:21,270 --> 00:06:19,120 yeah 183 00:06:23,110 --> 00:06:21,280 there was a group of uh 184 00:06:25,350 --> 00:06:23,120 uh 185 00:06:27,029 --> 00:06:25,360 i'd say intelligence community defense 186 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:27,039 department people that studied this 187 00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:28,960 topic for a long time 188 00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:32,960 uh very informally and unofficially um 189 00:06:37,270 --> 00:06:35,520 and uh we had got together i got a phone 190 00:06:39,189 --> 00:06:37,280 call from one of them one day and he 191 00:06:41,830 --> 00:06:39,199 said uh do you know this fella named tom 192 00:06:43,909 --> 00:06:41,840 delong and i said no he said blink 182 i 193 00:06:46,070 --> 00:06:43,919 said no doesn't ring any bells 194 00:06:47,909 --> 00:06:46,080 he said well he wrote a book called 195 00:06:49,270 --> 00:06:47,919 secret machines chasing shadows and 196 00:06:50,469 --> 00:06:49,280 there's a lot of information in that 197 00:06:51,590 --> 00:06:50,479 book 198 00:06:52,550 --> 00:06:51,600 um 199 00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:52,560 that 200 00:06:57,590 --> 00:06:55,120 well 201 00:06:58,870 --> 00:06:57,600 running true to form and and it we don't 202 00:07:00,870 --> 00:06:58,880 know whether or not some of the 203 00:07:02,230 --> 00:07:00,880 information on 204 00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:02,240 some of the programs that the us 205 00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:03,840 government had was being leaked or not 206 00:07:07,830 --> 00:07:06,080 and we knew that tom 207 00:07:09,189 --> 00:07:07,840 well at least i was told that tom had a 208 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:09,199 lot of senior 209 00:07:14,070 --> 00:07:11,840 uh government officials that he was in 210 00:07:17,670 --> 00:07:14,080 touch with his his advisors 211 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:17,680 uh so uh i i i we took it upon ourselves 212 00:07:20,870 --> 00:07:19,360 to go talk to mr 213 00:07:23,189 --> 00:07:20,880 mr long 214 00:07:24,950 --> 00:07:23,199 and uh and i was the one basically uh 215 00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:24,960 asked why don't you figure it out you 216 00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:26,160 know you're you're the you're the 217 00:07:30,150 --> 00:07:27,840 operations officer you know you did this 218 00:07:31,749 --> 00:07:30,160 for a living so i had a really nice i 219 00:07:34,150 --> 00:07:31,759 flew out to san diego and had a very 220 00:07:37,029 --> 00:07:34,160 very nice chat with tom and it became 221 00:07:38,870 --> 00:07:37,039 apparent right away that uh tom um not 222 00:07:41,589 --> 00:07:38,880 only being a very nice guy but extremely 223 00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:41,599 bright guy but he had put together 224 00:07:45,830 --> 00:07:43,280 all this data that he had been hearing 225 00:07:48,550 --> 00:07:45,840 and listening to and actually two and 226 00:07:50,790 --> 00:07:48,560 two came out to four i was rather 227 00:07:52,550 --> 00:07:50,800 surprised clearly there was no leak of 228 00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:52,560 that classified information as far as i 229 00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:54,400 was concerned but tom sort of hit the 230 00:07:58,469 --> 00:07:56,080 nail on the head 231 00:08:01,110 --> 00:07:58,479 so i then we had i think breakfast the 232 00:08:02,150 --> 00:08:01,120 next day with uh some other people dr 233 00:08:03,749 --> 00:08:02,160 put off 234 00:08:05,749 --> 00:08:03,759 and i won't name the other people that 235 00:08:09,990 --> 00:08:05,759 were there they may not want their names 236 00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:10,000 known but uh luminaries in the field um 237 00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:12,479 and that's when we started uh tom asked 238 00:08:15,110 --> 00:08:14,240 me if we could 239 00:08:16,950 --> 00:08:15,120 maybe 240 00:08:18,469 --> 00:08:16,960 work with him on to the stars and we 241 00:08:20,150 --> 00:08:18,479 agreed to do that and then i think tom 242 00:08:22,790 --> 00:08:20,160 we sketched out a uh 243 00:08:25,350 --> 00:08:22,800 uh what to the stars uh would look like 244 00:08:27,589 --> 00:08:25,360 on a cocktail napkin there and uh and 245 00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:27,599 that was it we shook hands and uh 246 00:08:33,430 --> 00:08:30,400 we've been uh friends ever since uh uh 247 00:08:35,190 --> 00:08:33,440 and uh so it was a lot of fun 248 00:08:36,870 --> 00:08:35,200 great uh that's great to hear and 249 00:08:39,509 --> 00:08:36,880 actually jim i'm sorry tom this will 250 00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:39,519 probably hurt your ego a lot uh but uh 251 00:08:42,870 --> 00:08:41,599 but they they my audience and kurt's 252 00:08:44,389 --> 00:08:42,880 audience are really like they're 253 00:08:46,550 --> 00:08:44,399 impressed that you're on tom but they're 254 00:08:49,509 --> 00:08:46,560 like we really want to hear from jim so 255 00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:51,110 all of us are the same way it's the 256 00:08:55,269 --> 00:08:53,040 first time in my life anybody wanted to 257 00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:55,279 hear from me but all right yeah so tom 258 00:08:59,110 --> 00:08:57,600 you uh have many distinctions of course 259 00:09:00,470 --> 00:08:59,120 your guitarist and and you could 260 00:09:02,470 --> 00:09:00,480 probably be on the beach here in san 261 00:09:04,630 --> 00:09:02,480 diego and next time we got to do this in 262 00:09:05,910 --> 00:09:04,640 person down up in encinitas or wherever 263 00:09:07,590 --> 00:09:05,920 but uh but you could spend your whole 264 00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:07,600 days you know cashing royalty checks 265 00:09:11,750 --> 00:09:09,760 from your awesome musical career and yet 266 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:11,760 you don't do that you don't rest on your 267 00:09:15,910 --> 00:09:13,680 laureate laurel so to speak and you've 268 00:09:18,150 --> 00:09:15,920 taken on this new mission and really you 269 00:09:19,269 --> 00:09:18,160 know i have to confess um you know in 270 00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:19,279 the beginning when i first heard i was 271 00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:20,640 like why is this guy interested he's not 272 00:09:25,590 --> 00:09:23,120 a scientist he's not a military pilot uh 273 00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:25,600 but you actually made this into an issue 274 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:26,800 i don't have to say more than almost 275 00:09:30,230 --> 00:09:28,720 anyone in popular culture you've made 276 00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:30,240 this an issue why is this so important 277 00:09:32,949 --> 00:09:31,360 to you 278 00:09:35,590 --> 00:09:32,959 you know i've always been fascinated 279 00:09:38,150 --> 00:09:35,600 with like kind of why we're here and 280 00:09:40,870 --> 00:09:38,160 what this is all about anybody 281 00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:40,880 uh that has any kind of similar wiring 282 00:09:46,310 --> 00:09:43,600 to me um who would understand you know 283 00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:46,320 growing up in a broken family and like 284 00:09:50,710 --> 00:09:48,320 i got kicked out of high school you know 285 00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:50,720 i just read a lot of bad tough kids and 286 00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:52,560 and i and my parents didn't get along 287 00:09:55,829 --> 00:09:54,080 you know and i just looked around a lot 288 00:09:57,750 --> 00:09:55,839 and i said this doesn't make any sense 289 00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:57,760 to me like really like somehow by 290 00:10:02,470 --> 00:10:00,640 accident or some weird design like i'm 291 00:10:05,190 --> 00:10:02,480 just supposed to only care about my 292 00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:05,200 bickering family and my my school that i 293 00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:07,519 didn't really fit into and go and get a 294 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:09,920 job that i hate so i kind of started 295 00:10:14,949 --> 00:10:12,640 early on on a quest of like not being 296 00:10:17,590 --> 00:10:14,959 like my parents you know and and working 297 00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:17,600 for myself and i was i was an artist i 298 00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:19,920 wanted to create things but as an artist 299 00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:20,800 you know 300 00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:23,360 you want people to emotionally get moved 301 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:24,640 by the art that you're creating the 302 00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:27,600 whole good job of an artist is to digest 303 00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:28,720 the world 304 00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:30,720 and with your point of view you kind of 305 00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:32,560 regurgitate it back to somebody then 306 00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:35,200 they get to digest it and hopefully they 307 00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:36,800 they see other points of view i mean 308 00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:38,160 that's what we do that is our job 309 00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:40,399 description so when i looked around i 310 00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:42,399 was like none of this makes sense you 311 00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:45,120 know what what really moves me would be 312 00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:47,120 like what's the layer deeper than all 313 00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:49,600 this and that's when i started realizing 314 00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:51,120 that there's an entire like kind of 315 00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:52,959 esoteric study out there that deals with 316 00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,440 consciousness and ufos and you know 317 00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:57,360 cosmology and all these different things 318 00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:58,800 but really when you when you get into 319 00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,880 ufos at first it's fascinating at first 320 00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:02,720 it's like oh my god conspiracy theory 321 00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:04,640 you know this is fun and then you start 322 00:11:08,470 --> 00:11:06,800 kind of going wait some of this is 323 00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:08,480 like real there's no way there's an 324 00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:10,480 astronaut here there's like a president 325 00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,320 there's like you know director of the 326 00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:14,480 cia or some admiral and you're kind of 327 00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:15,519 going 328 00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:17,680 wait a second and then you start diving 329 00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:19,519 deeper and then when you dive deeper i 330 00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:20,959 always tell people it's 331 00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:23,440 you're not studying like events really i 332 00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:24,800 mean those are fun and you get into 333 00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:27,040 those the first few years but really if 334 00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:28,720 you study this subject you're you're 335 00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:30,240 like jim said it's like you know you're 336 00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:31,519 getting into quantum mechanics and 337 00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:33,279 you're getting into consciousness and 338 00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,959 you're looking at archaeology 339 00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:36,720 differently and petroglyphs and stuff 340 00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:38,240 and you're starting to really soak in 341 00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:41,040 all the branches of the tree um and it 342 00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:42,640 seemed to me 343 00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,839 that all those things combined it really 344 00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:47,680 created a glue 345 00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:50,959 in my mind at least that tied together 346 00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:54,320 so many disparate ends of what mankind 347 00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:56,640 is all about and what's been going on it 348 00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:59,040 almost fit like a perfect puzzle piece 349 00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:00,800 not that i know 350 00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:02,720 everything i don't know if anyone does 351 00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,240 but for me and and it just became very 352 00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,399 um evident that this was like oh my this 353 00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,560 is a puzzle piece that fits it fits 354 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:12,800 in all these things that i grew up you 355 00:12:17,430 --> 00:12:15,360 know um having interactions with from 356 00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:17,440 like religion to 357 00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:20,000 government national security stuff to 358 00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,800 advance technology stuff to the history 359 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:25,040 of mankind and so on and i'm still on 360 00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:27,920 that quest but um 361 00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,519 on another note it's the only thing that 362 00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:31,600 ever took me out of the maddening kind 363 00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,040 of obsession of trying to write a better 364 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:35,279 song like when you're in a band it's 365 00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:36,880 or you're painting a painting any kind 366 00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,240 of art it's only going to be as good as 367 00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:40,959 how much time you can put into it and um 368 00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:42,399 so what you end up doing is putting all 369 00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:43,680 your time into it especially if you work 370 00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:45,519 for yourself it's like your wife's like 371 00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:47,040 joining the family and you're at playing 372 00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,720 guitar at one in the morning go no i got 373 00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:50,560 to figure out this melody well this is 374 00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:52,240 like the one thing that got me out of 375 00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:55,279 that because i i need to learn all the 376 00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:56,480 time 377 00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:57,839 i don't really like 378 00:13:01,910 --> 00:12:59,839 like predictable movies i don't like 379 00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:01,920 normal fiction books and stuff but this 380 00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,160 was like a fiction story 381 00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:06,160 but that has a bunch of things you can 382 00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:08,560 learn it's like it's just as fascinating 383 00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:10,639 but you can really enrich your mind and 384 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,200 soul by diving into some of these 385 00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:15,600 branches of the tree you know so 386 00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:18,959 here i am 20 years later i put some good 387 00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:21,120 pieces together um 388 00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:21,920 but 389 00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:23,360 as jim will tell you the first day i met 390 00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:25,120 jim i was like thank god you know he's 391 00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,920 like 392 00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,440 who are you what are you doing and i'm 393 00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:29,440 like i'm looking for somebody to work 394 00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,120 with me i i think we can do something 395 00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:32,639 great for the world i just don't really 396 00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:34,959 know how to do it by myself i need i 397 00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:37,600 need some help and and thankfully 398 00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:39,279 jim and a bunch of the people that he 399 00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:40,959 knew and was working with felt the same 400 00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,000 way it's 401 00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:44,480 it was just a good time to come together 402 00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:46,800 do you ever get um you know kind of the 403 00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,440 i'm sure you've had your share of of 404 00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,360 negative influences maybe people that 405 00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,279 don't like you in some way for your 406 00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,519 music or your or this research do you 407 00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:57,360 find any commonalities though in kinds 408 00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,519 of the support or maybe the negative 409 00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:01,519 attention that you get uh because you 410 00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,279 know on the face of it yes there are 411 00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:05,600 aspects of it but i would think naively 412 00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:08,079 scientists pilots etc we'd be the most 413 00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,199 interested but you made the interesting 414 00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:11,199 point that it's part of culture and 415 00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:12,720 people don't appreciate that science is 416 00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,360 a form of culture too uh equal in every 417 00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:18,000 respect in my opinion uh to arts and you 418 00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:19,680 know and letters and so forth so do you 419 00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:21,680 find commonality there tom just from the 420 00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,480 two different careers that you've had 421 00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:26,639 um i do i mean 422 00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:28,160 you know it's funny like one of the one 423 00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:30,720 of the when i was working with um 424 00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:32,480 and when i was building relationships 425 00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:34,959 with people before i knew jim that were 426 00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:37,199 you know high-ranking former government 427 00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:39,600 officials or military people and stuff i 428 00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:42,160 remember i wanted to thank them um for 429 00:14:45,269 --> 00:14:44,320 their time listening to me you know and 430 00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:45,279 so 431 00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,120 one way to thank them that i came up 432 00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,279 with was in 433 00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:51,600 the government kind of military 434 00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:53,519 industrial complex world they all create 435 00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:55,120 these challenge coins have you ever seen 436 00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:56,639 the challenge coins where you got one 437 00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:58,160 here yeah i've got it you got one there 438 00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:00,160 well for the people watching it's like 439 00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,680 you know these little coins that have 440 00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:03,680 like your platoon name on there maybe 441 00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,360 the things you believe in maybe it's the 442 00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:07,680 operation you're a part of yeah here's 443 00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,160 one from my buddy in afghanistan yeah 444 00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,800 they all make um um there you go 445 00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,240 so these little coins you bring them out 446 00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:16,079 of bars and you owe each other drinks 447 00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:17,680 depending on who's got a better coin or 448 00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:19,360 whatever so i decided to make a 449 00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:20,880 challenge point and i put on the 450 00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:24,240 vitruvian man which was uh da vinci's 451 00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:25,519 you know 452 00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:29,120 legs kind of thing but what that stood 453 00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:30,800 for was art and science and what i 454 00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:32,240 really liked about that and this all 455 00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:34,000 comes full circle to your question was 456 00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:36,240 um art and science to me was something 457 00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:37,360 measurable with something that's 458 00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:39,760 infinite you know it's consciousness and 459 00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:41,760 zeros and ones to some degree but when 460 00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:44,000 they come together um i think for the 461 00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,600 longest time we've always separated 462 00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:46,959 consciousness and things that we don't 463 00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:48,079 understand 464 00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:49,600 and we put it in religion we just go 465 00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,320 that's god's world so we can't know that 466 00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:54,480 we can't measure that um yeah there you 467 00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,199 go and um and so consciousness in 468 00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,040 metaphysics and things we don't 469 00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:01,920 understand was supernatural paranormal 470 00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,680 um and it was in the realm of the old 471 00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:05,600 testament or something you know um or 472 00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:08,160 other religions um but the vitruvian man 473 00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:10,000 this idea of bringing consciousness and 474 00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:11,440 science or art and science together 475 00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:13,120 because art is really just a stream of 476 00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:14,800 consciousness you're making things up so 477 00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,160 the question is is where are you getting 478 00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:18,079 that you know you're you're some type of 479 00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:20,000 antenna and you're pulling it from 480 00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:22,399 consciousness in my view um so i use 481 00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:24,000 this on the challenge point to say look 482 00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:26,079 as an artist and as something that's 483 00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,839 scientifically based here if we can 484 00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:29,279 merge these together the future of 485 00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:30,880 science i think is going to be once we 486 00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,440 understand consciousness we take the the 487 00:16:37,509 --> 00:16:35,600 realm of what used to be all religion or 488 00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:37,519 something and we merge it with science 489 00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:38,959 and now we got like this theory of 490 00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:42,240 everything um so i wanted to say that my 491 00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:43,759 my um 492 00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:45,759 project was that it was an artist 493 00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:47,600 working with things that are tangible 494 00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:49,600 tangible and measurable and so i made 495 00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,959 these challenge coins i put the 496 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:52,720 vitruvian man on there 497 00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:55,440 and i gave them to everybody and and um 498 00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:57,759 for me i got the same rush 499 00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:59,440 as being an artist but with this because 500 00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:01,600 i really felt that i was 501 00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:02,639 i was 502 00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,959 putting something together with a point 503 00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:06,559 of view that people 504 00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,039 really haven't been able to spend time 505 00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:11,679 with or study or look at or notice 506 00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:12,480 um 507 00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:14,880 and it became kind of like the guiding 508 00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:17,120 north star the light you know was the 509 00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:19,520 merging of these two things um and it's 510 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,120 just been a hell of a lot of fun along 511 00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:23,760 the way i believe it kurt uh would you 512 00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:25,360 like to ask uh you had some comments and 513 00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,039 questions for jim do you want to take it 514 00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:29,120 from here yeah 515 00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,640 first i want you 516 00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:32,400 tom and jim and the audience to know 517 00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:34,640 that i'm not a skeptic nor a debunker 518 00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,039 i'm more of a 519 00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:39,120 i'm curious and i'm clueless 520 00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:41,200 when i research this topic i'm just 521 00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:43,280 baffled and bewildered constantly i 522 00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,120 don't know what to think 523 00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:47,679 so when i spoke to travis walton 524 00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:49,360 recently some people thought that i was 525 00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,840 a skeptic that's actually not true i i'm 526 00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,520 asking detailed questions because i want 527 00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:54,960 to know what was the air like on this 528 00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:56,799 alien ship i want to know what did the 529 00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,480 glass rod feel like was it heavy was 530 00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,240 gravity the same and so on so if i ask 531 00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,240 you detailed questions please it's out 532 00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:03,600 of a place of love 533 00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:10,390 because you're asking jim right 534 00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:15,200 i can ask you whoever wants to answer 535 00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:16,880 what's going on at skinwalker and what's 536 00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:18,640 its connections to 537 00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,520 what's its connection to ufos 538 00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:22,880 uh 539 00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:25,679 well i am by no means an ex expert on 540 00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,720 skinwalker ranch uh tom and i know 541 00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:30,480 uh all the people that are involved 542 00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,919 george uh calm uh kelleher and george 543 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,600 knapp keller her 544 00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:37,520 uh i've never met mr bigelow i was 545 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,960 supposed to at one point but it never 546 00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:40,720 never happened but um 547 00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,440 uh there's 548 00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:45,600 i think that that's a fascinating case 549 00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:47,200 uh the 550 00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,440 uh i think but i don't know whether i 551 00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:51,200 can actually discuss that in any kind of 552 00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:52,720 meaningful way because i wasn't there 553 00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,080 and i wasn't part of it i read the book 554 00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,400 like everybody else i john alexander's a 555 00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:58,000 dear friend of mine and you know he was 556 00:19:03,909 --> 00:19:00,320 there and we talk about it quite a bit 557 00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:03,919 um i think uh what had happened there uh 558 00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:06,320 was true and accurate and real 559 00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:09,679 uh but i also believe that when you go 560 00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,679 looking 561 00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:13,280 for the phenomenon 562 00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:16,080 uh it basically doesn't show itself uh 563 00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:19,039 it doesn't like to do that and after 40 564 00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,960 years of studying that 565 00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:22,400 you know it's it's that low 566 00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:24,320 observability thing going on you know 567 00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:25,840 why we can never get a good picture of 568 00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:28,799 uap for some strange reason it doesn't 569 00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:30,799 want to go there so you mentioned 570 00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:32,880 earlier you're dazed and confused well 571 00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:34,799 yeah i'm about as days as confused as 572 00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,559 you are by the whole thing i have my own 573 00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:38,880 opinions based on what i know and based 574 00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,039 on what i've read but um 575 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,960 skinwalker is fascinating i i you know 576 00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:45,280 from everybody i know that been there 577 00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:47,120 and done that including 578 00:19:50,549 --> 00:19:48,559 some people that were not mentioned in 579 00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,559 the book which i don't want to get into 580 00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:53,039 but uh it's uh 581 00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:55,919 it's a pretty serious place and a lot of 582 00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:58,000 serious things happen there 583 00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:59,120 um 584 00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:00,880 but i'll let tom go 585 00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:03,039 go and talk more about that 586 00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:04,880 sure you know i what i find fascinating 587 00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,360 about skinwalker is that um you 588 00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:09,679 basically have the convergence of 589 00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:10,880 multiple 590 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:11,840 you know 591 00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,120 look at ufos you can find stories where 592 00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:19,440 somebody might come out and their cattle 593 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,880 are missing or 594 00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,080 there's um 595 00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,240 you know a cattle mutilation where blood 596 00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:26,000 is gone or parts of the jar are 597 00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,919 dissected maybe an eyeball's gone maybe 598 00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:30,159 the reproductive reproductive organs are 599 00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:31,360 gone or whatever 600 00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:34,640 um and a lot of like really weird things 601 00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:36,640 about it like maybe the cuts are in 602 00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:38,880 between cells maybe there's no vascular 603 00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:40,799 collapse maybe it happened within 10 604 00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,120 minutes when the farmer turned around or 605 00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,679 something then you have um people that 606 00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,520 might have seen lights in the sky the 607 00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,840 day the night before when it happened or 608 00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:51,360 you know then there's people that have 609 00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:54,480 paranormal feelings they might have seen 610 00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,360 like you know some type of entity that's 611 00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:59,200 invisible or something they weren't 612 00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,600 quite sure then you have poltergeist 613 00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:03,360 events and other houses whatever but 614 00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:04,960 what's weird about skinwalkers they were 615 00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,640 all happening there you know so you have 616 00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:08,080 all these things happening in one 617 00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:09,120 location 618 00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:11,280 but as jim said it's like 619 00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,480 super elusive um it's almost like it'll 620 00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:16,799 watch you be there for a week and then 621 00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:18,960 the night you're driving away to go home 622 00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:20,159 it's like you look in your rear-view 623 00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,440 mirror and there's something crazy you 624 00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:23,520 know and it almost toys with you that 625 00:21:26,789 --> 00:21:24,960 was something that they all seem to say 626 00:21:28,390 --> 00:21:26,799 like it seemed like it knew 627 00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:28,400 that you wanted to see something you 628 00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,080 want to do something whatever what i 629 00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:32,240 find fascinating is that you have this 630 00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:34,080 one location where so many things are 631 00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,720 happening and it's documented by a bunch 632 00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:38,400 of government people a bunch of phd 633 00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:39,600 scientists a bunch of people that have 634 00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:42,159 lived there and um and not only 635 00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:43,679 documented over like a few months we're 636 00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:46,880 talking like decades you know and it's 637 00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:48,799 kind of a hot spot where you can kind of 638 00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:50,480 dig into 639 00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:52,080 trying to find why are they all 640 00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,559 happening at this one location and and 641 00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:56,640 what interests me is that i think it 642 00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:01,120 gives us a potential pathway to discuss 643 00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:02,400 some 644 00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,240 alternate um 645 00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:06,720 candidates for where they're from or 646 00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,799 what they're doing or how it all works 647 00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:10,320 like i think most people like to think 648 00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:12,559 of ufos is they're coming from another 649 00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,320 planet you know we found an exoplanet 650 00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,760 and it's coming there and how do they 651 00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:17,440 travel well they could do it in 30 years 652 00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,520 and they go fast well the data doesn't 653 00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:22,080 seem to suggest that really it it it's 654 00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,679 more what's happening at skinwalker 655 00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:25,360 where it seems like 656 00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:27,039 it's more about frequencies and 657 00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:28,640 dimensional or 658 00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:30,760 they materialize it's almost like their 659 00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:33,760 displacement craft that displaces our 660 00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:37,039 time like a submarine would in the ocean 661 00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:39,200 um and that was a lot of what dr 662 00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:41,520 halpudoff worked on on atip was 663 00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,600 understanding the attributes of the 664 00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:45,360 propulsion and the science that they're 665 00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:47,760 using and i think once you think about 666 00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:51,760 ufos using that kind of a technology 667 00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:53,679 then it's kind of like well if they do 668 00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:56,320 that if they use that that means there's 669 00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:58,640 things that are adjacent to us 670 00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:01,840 that we don't see we don't understand 671 00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:03,840 but are like right here and every once 672 00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:06,320 in a while they can kind of cross over 673 00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:08,320 is it because we're aware of it and can 674 00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,480 see it and that opens it or is it 675 00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,440 because it's a geomagnetic 676 00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,080 area where where those types of things 677 00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,400 are have an easier time coming through 678 00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:20,480 um or is it everywhere and we just think 679 00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:22,799 it's in one location i don't know i mean 680 00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,480 there's a story that even happened there 681 00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:26,640 where they like you know they were there 682 00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:28,000 and they and you're talking about 683 00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:29,200 government 684 00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:31,600 grade phds where they watch 685 00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:33,360 you know something in the atmosphere 686 00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:35,120 open up and something come through not 687 00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,559 sure what it is 688 00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:38,880 and and it was a huge event so they run 689 00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,720 down to grab the cameras and see what 690 00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,159 was on the cameras they open up these 691 00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:44,080 lock boxes and then like all the 692 00:23:47,270 --> 00:23:45,919 electronics are missing and the cameras 693 00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:47,280 and they're like wait what like these 694 00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:49,360 were locked up and who took it's like a 695 00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:51,520 game and so it gets really interesting 696 00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,720 where 697 00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:54,480 is it a game i don't know but it might 698 00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,120 be a consciousness thing and so 699 00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,679 i get passionate about a place like that 700 00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,600 because it gives you the ability 701 00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:03,360 to do to really jump into some wild 702 00:24:08,549 --> 00:24:05,600 stuff i mean one of the scientists there 703 00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:08,559 was walking through a field and they 704 00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:11,279 basically saw um you know they saw they 705 00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:13,200 walked past um 706 00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:15,760 like a cow or something and then they 707 00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:17,440 turned around it was gone 708 00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,279 and then like 10 minutes later they're 709 00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:21,360 like where is it they turn back around 710 00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:22,640 and there it is on the ground just out 711 00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,640 of nowhere with like two broken legs so 712 00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:27,200 they run in the ground 713 00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:29,200 it was no it was alive you know and then 714 00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,880 they run back into 715 00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:33,039 the the house to go grab a gun or 716 00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:34,400 something to take care of it and when 717 00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:35,679 they come out now it has four broken 718 00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:37,919 legs you know or something it's like 719 00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:41,679 creepy and and and like causing 720 00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,279 alarm because 721 00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,360 number one it makes no sense number two 722 00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,440 it's like it's happening so quick that 723 00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:49,440 they can't even um and i got family 724 00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,720 showing up from the beach you know you 725 00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:52,640 see people behind me but um you 726 00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,080 mentioned the beach they all went to the 727 00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:56,240 beach earlier but um 728 00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,279 what it seems to be is that it's it's 729 00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:01,600 you know an issue with 730 00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:02,559 time 731 00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,480 um and an issue with 732 00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:07,200 moving it like from here to here where 733 00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:09,440 we can't see it and back and then people 734 00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,480 will see crap and then i don't know it's 735 00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,880 it's just wild and it and it's so 736 00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:16,480 fascinating and i always tell people in 737 00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,760 hollywood because you know to the stars 738 00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:19,600 is getting into making like 739 00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:21,520 movies and tv series and documentaries 740 00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,640 and stuff and i just you don't need to 741 00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:24,480 sensationalize this stuff you don't need 742 00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:25,760 to come up with 743 00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:27,279 um 744 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:32,960 you know ideas to make it intriguing i 745 00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:35,520 mean it's it is it's it's wild the way 746 00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:38,000 it is you don't have to do much to it 747 00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:39,760 have you come up with any theories as to 748 00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:42,480 why cattle mutilations occur 749 00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:44,240 me personally 750 00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:46,240 or heard any that you found to be 751 00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:47,919 interesting 752 00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,240 well i wouldn't have any science to back 753 00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:51,840 anything up so i could tell you i'm a 754 00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:54,480 dreamer you know so i can come up with a 755 00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,640 bunch of ideas i have some 756 00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:59,360 um you know i've heard scientists 757 00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,559 discuss 758 00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:02,720 you know tracking our food supply you 759 00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,799 know trying to see if there's 760 00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,880 things that are in our food supply that 761 00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:08,720 are affecting kind of how we evolve okay 762 00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:10,480 that that was an interesting and there's 763 00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,919 a lot more to it but it's not my place 764 00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,840 to get into that um i've heard people 765 00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:15,840 discuss that you know it's genetics or 766 00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:18,559 something it's it's understanding um a 767 00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:20,880 bit more about you know the life here on 768 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,480 earth or whatever then you get into way 769 00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,400 more far out stuff is maybe it has 770 00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:26,159 something to do with genetics with man 771 00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:29,440 because maybe bovine type samples deal 772 00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:31,679 with you know the blood or the i don't 773 00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:33,919 know like the glands or something have 774 00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,840 to do with you know people want to go 775 00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:37,440 way out and be science fiction about it 776 00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:40,400 but i i just don't know and i think 777 00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:42,880 i just think that what we are hearing is 778 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,760 that 779 00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:45,360 people are seeing lights and craft in 780 00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,360 the sky in areas where they find these 781 00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:48,880 things we know they're happening and 782 00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:50,159 have been happening for decades and 783 00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:52,320 decades like not just like a few like 784 00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:54,880 thousands you know um but no one really 785 00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:57,120 knows the reason why 786 00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,200 maybe someone somewhere in some basement 787 00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:01,120 knows but i i don't want to pretend that 788 00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:03,039 i know because i don't but i do know 789 00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:04,960 people been studying this for like 30 790 00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:07,200 years and and um 791 00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:08,720 and they all tend to say the same thing 792 00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:10,880 it's like it's happening in a way 793 00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,200 that doesn't look like we can pull off 794 00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,200 what we're finding it just looks way i 795 00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:17,520 mean they found cattle with organs like 796 00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:19,520 their heart missing but no incisions 797 00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,039 anywhere like somehow they reached in 798 00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:22,960 and just grabbed it and pulled it out 799 00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,960 you know so it's like what does that 800 00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:26,720 mean what is it i don't know but it's 801 00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:29,200 it's it's wild for sure how do you take 802 00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:31,279 the reaction in terms of you know people 803 00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:33,600 coming um and saying 804 00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:35,279 you are basically a repository for 805 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:37,919 people to come forward to come out etc 806 00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:40,480 uh that you know is sort of a unique 807 00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:43,360 role for you tom right uh it's it's now 808 00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,559 you're almost like a priest and 809 00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:46,480 confessional and and people coming 810 00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:50,950 how is that how do you deal with that 811 00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:52,880 pressure how do you deal with the with 812 00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,960 the notion of you know kind of this this 813 00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:56,960 you become the face and symbolizing a 814 00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:58,640 lot of this and and there's a wonderful 815 00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:00,480 clip that one of your fans put out on 816 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:02,399 twitter i saw yesterday or a couple days 817 00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:03,840 you know it was like what you said in 818 00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,640 2017 on you know joe rogan show and then 819 00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:09,520 like slowly as they say you know first 820 00:28:13,350 --> 00:28:12,399 creative ideas are dismissed as lunacy 821 00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:13,360 then they're mocked then they're 822 00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:15,200 ridiculed then they're accepted as 823 00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,679 trivial and known all along so now that 824 00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:19,440 these you know pentagon report which we 825 00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:21,120 have to get into and maybe i'd love to 826 00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,240 hear get jim's take first on that um jim 827 00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,720 when this came out did you feel like uh 828 00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:28,559 it answered more questions for me if i 829 00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,679 felt like it answered more questions i 830 00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:31,679 mean honestly i am a skeptic i have to 831 00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:34,080 say as a scientist there's no one tom 832 00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,679 and jim kurt already knows this that 833 00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:38,159 would be more kind of thrilled delighted 834 00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:40,080 to skip the line as my friend james 835 00:28:46,110 --> 00:28:42,840 altitude says and go from the physics of 836 00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:46,120 2021 to the physics required maybe 837 00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:49,120 2121 or beyond i would love to do that 838 00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,720 first of all i'd get you know multiple 839 00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:52,720 nobel prizes second of all 840 00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:55,039 i would satisfy the personal curiosity 841 00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:56,960 that sounds like tom and jim and kurt we 842 00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:59,360 all have to understand the nature of 843 00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,960 reality because let's face it guys we're 844 00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:02,720 only here for a short amount of time 845 00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:04,640 we're given maybe the biblical age of 846 00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:07,919 120 that's about it um but uh but if we 847 00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,240 could skip that line avoid death avoid 848 00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:12,240 you know interstellar uh you know kind 849 00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,080 of have the secrets to this to these to 850 00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:16,559 these advanced uh technologies and to 851 00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,480 advance knowledge that to me is the 852 00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,480 pinnacle of what homo sapiens could 853 00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:22,799 achieve jim when you look at this when 854 00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:23,919 you hear 855 00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:25,600 uh these complaints and and so forth 856 00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:27,279 people being skeptic do you feel like 857 00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:29,520 skeptics have a point i mean are we just 858 00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:31,279 like kind of curmudgeons and we're just 859 00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:33,120 not hearing the truth uh that you guys 860 00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,880 are telling or you know 861 00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,559 you have feet in both worlds you're in 862 00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:38,399 the military and the you know government 863 00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:39,840 uh but you're also in the in the 864 00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:42,720 community that tom's in what do you feel 865 00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:44,799 is the right approach here believe 866 00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,480 everything believe nothing how do you 867 00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:49,440 split those uh those atoms yeah i mean i 868 00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:51,279 yeah that's an excellent question and 869 00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:53,360 and i think i think you just said it uh 870 00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:54,640 you know believe everything believe 871 00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:57,600 nothing uh i'm i'm not a skeptic uh by 872 00:30:01,190 --> 00:30:00,000 any stretch of the imagination um and 873 00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:01,200 when the 874 00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:07,360 out i i understood what it was going to 875 00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:10,880 be uh it's just an adam bration it was 876 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,520 an outline uh of what they're planning 877 00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:15,600 on doing there was no way they could put 878 00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:16,720 together 879 00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:18,960 any kind of substantive report any kind 880 00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:21,039 of intelligence assessment based on this 881 00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:22,399 in the short amount of time that they 882 00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:25,840 had and they only took you know 144 883 00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:27,919 incidents my god i mean that's and just 884 00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:30,240 from the navy i 885 00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:32,240 i mean there are hundreds of thousands 886 00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:34,000 of incidents that have happened that 887 00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,480 credible witnesses have seen so i i 888 00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:39,120 wasn't surprised 889 00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:41,120 i thought the the the writing in there 890 00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:43,600 was obviously done by the dni it was 891 00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:44,720 very 892 00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:49,279 think they took some pot shots at the 893 00:30:52,630 --> 00:30:51,520 air force which i'm glad they did 894 00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:52,640 because i don't know where the hell the 895 00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:55,039 air force has been in all this 896 00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:57,279 actually i sort of do but 897 00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:58,240 um 898 00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:01,760 but the most important piece i felt uh 899 00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:03,919 was the deputy secretary of defense memo 900 00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:05,600 they came out at the same time that was 901 00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:07,679 issued on july 25th 902 00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:09,679 that memo came out and said 903 00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,279 knock it off 904 00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:12,880 cat's out of the bag 905 00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:14,640 we are gonna go after this we're gonna 906 00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:16,320 we're gonna develop requirements and 907 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:17,840 requirements that basically means that 908 00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:20,080 it's an intelligence term for uh for 909 00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:21,520 questions we're gonna develop these 910 00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:23,600 questions everybody's gonna have to 911 00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:26,000 answer them and and and and we're gonna 912 00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:27,440 put money towards this we're gonna put 913 00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:30,000 people towards this that's huge 914 00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,200 that's absolutely huge and um and uh so 915 00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,600 i thought i was very very happy when 916 00:31:38,549 --> 00:31:37,279 when i saw that 917 00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:38,559 now 918 00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,360 when they talked about in the report you 919 00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:43,440 know they have these these areas these 920 00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:45,120 categories you know about what they 921 00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,440 think it could be you know 922 00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:49,600 air clutter and and what have you and 923 00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:51,200 then going down it could be this it 924 00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:52,559 could be that it could be the russians 925 00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:53,760 of chinese 926 00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,320 uh look i i've i've studied russian and 927 00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:58,240 chinese high technology 928 00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:01,600 for my whole career 929 00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:03,679 this these uaps 930 00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,440 or whatever the hell they are i mean we 931 00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:07,039 call them uaps we really don't know what 932 00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:08,320 they are 933 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:10,640 um they're not russian and they're not 934 00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:14,320 chinese and they're definitely not ours 935 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:15,679 they're just not 936 00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,080 that leaves nothing 937 00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:21,039 left except they're something else and 938 00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:22,559 what that's something else is i don't 939 00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:25,120 know i i i was on tv a couple weeks ago 940 00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:27,279 when i called it 941 00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:29,360 i was prodded by the producer i said say 942 00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:31,360 something say something 943 00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:35,200 and i i called it a i called it a a 944 00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:38,960 non-human technology and i and i guess 945 00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:42,000 that's the best way i can go 946 00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:45,279 but i don't think science 947 00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:46,640 right now 948 00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:49,760 has the ability to look at this 949 00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:51,919 in a way that they want to look at it 950 00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:54,159 and it's not their fault and i i it's 951 00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:56,159 because you know there's no reliability 952 00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,120 here there's no predictability here uh 953 00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:01,679 this this phenomenon 954 00:33:06,789 --> 00:33:03,200 plays with us 955 00:33:09,669 --> 00:33:06,799 it teases us it cajoles us it gets close 956 00:33:11,750 --> 00:33:09,679 but you can't get too close to it uh and 957 00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:11,760 sometimes it appears to people up close 958 00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:14,320 and personal other times it doesn't but 959 00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:16,000 if you notice with the navy i mean you 960 00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,000 know what is it actually saying i mean 961 00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:20,080 you know are they trying to communicate 962 00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:21,679 with us or are they basically just 963 00:33:27,430 --> 00:33:25,120 trying to affect us socioculturally 964 00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:27,440 when you talked earlier about 965 00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,279 cattle mutilations hell yeah cattle 966 00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,519 mutilations are real don't really know 967 00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:33,279 what's happening with them 968 00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,720 but when you look at what the real 969 00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:36,240 effect of that is 970 00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:40,240 us sitting here and looking at that 971 00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:42,559 and all of a sudden our cultural norms 972 00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:45,200 and social media if things change and 973 00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,640 things change but i know jack valet 974 00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:48,399 talks about this quite a bit and i'm a 975 00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:51,279 huge fan of his um 976 00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:53,600 are they here to basically change us are 977 00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:56,640 they more of a control mechanism and it 978 00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:57,600 you know 979 00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:01,200 we we don't know we have tons of 980 00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:03,840 questions zero answers i think science 981 00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:06,240 has a huge huge way ahead of them i mean 982 00:34:10,629 --> 00:34:08,159 it's going to be very very difficult 983 00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:10,639 um but i don't think we have any uh you 984 00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:13,280 know options except to investigate this 985 00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,879 but it's clearly 986 00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:16,560 not human 987 00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:19,119 not it not even as we know it yes 988 00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:20,879 kurt you've had jock on what what are 989 00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,800 your takes and also kevin knew who's a 990 00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:24,240 physics professor 991 00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,639 new york state uh talk about your 992 00:34:31,349 --> 00:34:28,800 peregrinations your explorations of this 993 00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:31,359 phenomenon kurt what have you uh kind of 994 00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:33,679 surmised as a physicist as a scientist 995 00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:35,679 what what kinds of uh thoughts do you 996 00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:37,200 have about 997 00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:38,960 approaching this from the colleague of 998 00:34:42,629 --> 00:34:40,560 as you know our colleagues are very 999 00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:42,639 skeptical of some of these claims cattle 1000 00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:43,919 mutilation what does that have to do 1001 00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:45,040 with physics what does that have to do 1002 00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:46,560 with aliens and other planets and where 1003 00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,599 would they come from how would they get 1004 00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:49,440 here how could these are anyway 1005 00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,240 kurt 1006 00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:52,800 my brother tell me what do you make of 1007 00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,159 your explorations of this as a topic how 1008 00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:58,880 have you been influenced changed perhaps 1009 00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,040 not mutilated but how has your mind got 1010 00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:03,200 mutilated in a certain sense where do 1011 00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:04,800 you stand now 1012 00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:07,520 well i'm probably much like most people 1013 00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:10,160 here used to be a staunched skeptic an 1014 00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:12,000 ardent one an arrogant one not saying 1015 00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,520 that you're one you're not arrogant at 1016 00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:15,839 all brian but most are let's say that's 1017 00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:17,599 not true that's not true 1018 00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:18,880 and 1019 00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,599 don't know if you've played this game 1020 00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:23,440 called metal gear solid but at some 1021 00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:25,119 points you get when you get spotted 1022 00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:26,720 there's a exclamation point that goes 1023 00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:29,119 over the guard's head 1024 00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:30,960 i feel like that all the time just 1025 00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:32,320 constantly what the heck is happening 1026 00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:33,359 what the heck is this what does this 1027 00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:38,550 so i don't know i don't even know if 1028 00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,640 there's one alien species if it's a 1029 00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:42,640 subspecies if there are aliens to begin 1030 00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:45,200 with if it's multiple races if it's 1031 00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:46,400 factions 1032 00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:50,950 can i add something 1033 00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:53,359 to this conversation let me let me give 1034 00:35:57,910 --> 00:35:55,280 you the government perspective on this 1035 00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,920 um as an intelligence officer for a long 1036 00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:00,000 long time i will tell you 1037 00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:03,440 that back in 1945 actually you know this 1038 00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,720 phenomenon has been seen since the 1039 00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:06,400 beginning of time all major religions 1040 00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:07,839 have talked about it 1041 00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:09,839 uh we started seeing more of it in the 1042 00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:11,839 40s actually during world war ii and 1043 00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:15,119 then later on afterwards um when general 1044 00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:18,079 twining came out in 1947 and basically 1045 00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:20,160 said look these are real these are 1046 00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,839 serious we're gonna have to look at it 1047 00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:23,760 and then we had project sign project 1048 00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:26,240 grudge and then you know the um and you 1049 00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:28,160 know blue book and then 1050 00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,760 we had all these other things the uh 1051 00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:31,680 condom report and what have you 1052 00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,440 where they basically came out and said 1053 00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:35,680 screw it we're not gonna do this anymore 1054 00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,320 absolute nonsense there's no way that 1055 00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:40,240 the air force or the intelligence 1056 00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:41,920 community is going to give up on 1057 00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,720 something like this that is that is a 1058 00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:47,040 very very real 1059 00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:49,280 phenomenon that we don't i don't think 1060 00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,560 it's a threat at all to be honest with 1061 00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:52,240 you i just i think it's totally 1062 00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,000 indifferent to who the hell we are but 1063 00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:56,079 but nevertheless it has to be looked at 1064 00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:57,599 the military in the intelligence 1065 00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,839 community does not 1066 00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:02,160 ignore that they will not ignore that 1067 00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:04,400 and you know and and and this it's 1068 00:37:07,829 --> 00:37:05,680 always going to be bubbling up in the 1069 00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:07,839 background it may be in some deep black 1070 00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:10,240 program some hidden someplace but i 1071 00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:13,040 would be shocked and surprised if that 1072 00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:14,560 isn't what's going on that we haven't 1073 00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:16,960 been seriously studying this 1074 00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,800 for the last 70 or 80 years yeah i have 1075 00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:20,640 nothing just there's no way there's no 1076 00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:22,000 way when you look at the stargate 1077 00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:23,040 program 1078 00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:26,079 that was a direct reaction to 1079 00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:29,359 soviet uh experiments in in psychic 1080 00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,560 phenomena 1081 00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:32,640 they were doing that we had to figure 1082 00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:34,400 out why they were doing that and what 1083 00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,960 they found out and i can tell you other 1084 00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,240 stories 1085 00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:40,400 i mean crazy technologies you think 1086 00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:44,079 didn't know exist but actually do exist 1087 00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:45,839 and and you you find out that other 1088 00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:47,200 other countries are working on them or 1089 00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:49,359 trying them and what have look there's a 1090 00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:50,160 huge 1091 00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,760 national security element in all this 1092 00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:53,839 too so i mean you know nobody wants to 1093 00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:56,240 share this data publicly because as they 1094 00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:57,680 say you know you tell your friends you 1095 00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:59,839 tell your enemy so a lot of that stuff 1096 00:38:02,710 --> 00:38:01,280 is hidden and i don't blame the 1097 00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,720 government for hiding a lot of this 1098 00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:04,800 stuff either if there is a true and 1099 00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,680 honest national security uh uh problem 1100 00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:10,320 associated with this but you know i i i 1101 00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:13,280 just find it extremely difficult uh 1102 00:38:17,829 --> 00:38:16,400 with skeptics who who who tell me like 1103 00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:17,839 when they see this stuff and they go 1104 00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:19,280 well i don't know what it is look at 1105 00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,040 that's agreeable i mean i i don't know 1106 00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,000 what it is either but it is there 1107 00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,480 and no one has an answer to it and and 1108 00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,560 please don't tell me it belongs to you 1109 00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:30,320 know china or russia or some other 1110 00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,160 that's just nonsense i think that was an 1111 00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,800 out that the uap task force had to use 1112 00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,640 um um i mean once you've read the 1113 00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:37,920 literature once you've been read on it 1114 00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:39,200 it's read in on some of these programs 1115 00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:42,160 it's just i'm sorry it just i'm not a 1116 00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,839 skeptic that did exist i just don't know 1117 00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:46,079 what the hell it is you know when i when 1118 00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:47,760 i look at that data and you know i'm 1119 00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:49,760 going to ask each of you to steel man 1120 00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:51,920 your quote opponent's perspective in 1121 00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:53,440 other words what's the best argument 1122 00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:55,359 you've heard counter to your own 1123 00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:57,760 position jim and tom especially but 1124 00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:59,760 before i do that i want to just make 1125 00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,520 take a reset and tell everybody who 1126 00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:03,440 we're talking to tom delong of course 1127 00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:05,280 the to the stars academy and also jim 1128 00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:08,160 simvan of to the stars academy former uh 1129 00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:10,960 cia play and kertje mungle host of the 1130 00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:12,880 theories of everything channel which has 1131 00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,480 done yeoman's work kurt you're you're 1132 00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:16,400 really a role model in many ways to many 1133 00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:18,240 youtubers we've got a lot of people 1134 00:39:21,990 --> 00:39:20,160 listening jeremy reese in the in the 1135 00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:22,000 chat room and many other people but tom 1136 00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:24,000 i want to ask you when i hear talk to my 1137 00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:25,760 fellow scientists about this and i talk 1138 00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:27,280 to somebody who's a member of i don't 1139 00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,079 know if you're familiar with this 1140 00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:30,079 organization called the jason's jason's 1141 00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,440 are a secret i'm sure jim knows about 1142 00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,839 them too so they actually meet here in 1143 00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:35,760 in san diego uh once a year at least 1144 00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:37,920 they did before covet and they tell me i 1145 00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:40,079 said wouldn't you think like the best 1146 00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:41,520 and brightest would be at least 1147 00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:42,960 interested involved in this and they 1148 00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:44,640 said no i'm not we're not they haven't 1149 00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:46,079 asked us the government hasn't asked us 1150 00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:47,440 to investigate it we're not just going 1151 00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:49,040 to go off and investigate stuff on our 1152 00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,920 own um why would this organization 1153 00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:53,359 assuming he's telling me the truth and 1154 00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:54,880 she there's actually multiple people 1155 00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:56,079 members of the jason's have told me the 1156 00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:57,760 same thing no we're not investigating 1157 00:40:01,910 --> 00:40:00,000 these phenomena uh is that insulting to 1158 00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:01,920 you how do you take that is that proper 1159 00:40:08,069 --> 00:40:05,200 skepticism is that um 1160 00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:08,079 in my experience um 1161 00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:09,920 in my experience even the people that 1162 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:11,920 are very much involved on this stuff 1163 00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:14,160 would tell you that exact same answer 1164 00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:16,640 you know jim can explain 1165 00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:18,400 security clearances and national 1166 00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:21,040 security stuff i i can't i i'm not 1167 00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,240 i don't know that kind of stuff i just 1168 00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:24,400 know through osmosis kind of how it's 1169 00:40:28,310 --> 00:40:26,560 treated but um 1170 00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:28,320 i when i first met a bunch of people 1171 00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:30,160 that were involved on this subject 1172 00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:32,800 before i even knew jim i remember 1173 00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:34,240 specifically 1174 00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:36,800 you know i was in uh one place and you 1175 00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:39,359 know there's a big big wig i was talking 1176 00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,200 to and he goes you know 1177 00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:43,200 um you know we don't 1178 00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:45,280 ever look at that subject we don't care 1179 00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:47,040 about that subject there's absolutely no 1180 00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:48,880 evidence whatsoever that any of that is 1181 00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,000 even real 1182 00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:52,640 yada yada and i was like okay um thanks 1183 00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:55,520 and then i left that person's company 1184 00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,319 uh or that that person's table and went 1185 00:41:01,589 --> 00:41:00,000 right outside the door and there's these 1186 00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:01,599 other two guys that work directly under 1187 00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:03,200 them that said we want to talk about 1188 00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:04,319 this and they talked about it for an 1189 00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:06,560 hour you know and it was like nothing 1190 00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:08,079 classified they can't go there but it 1191 00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:10,000 was just like some people are more open 1192 00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:12,640 to it and some people aren't but the 1193 00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:13,760 people that are 1194 00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,720 dealing 1195 00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:16,800 directly with something that's 1196 00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:18,640 classified they're never going to even 1197 00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:20,480 talk about it you know 1198 00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:22,480 um as far as the best and the brightest 1199 00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:24,800 i guess that's subjective because 1200 00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:26,560 you know who knows if the jason's really 1201 00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:28,160 are or not i've always heard that they 1202 00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:30,400 kind of were you know but i think that 1203 00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:32,240 you know you have incredible people at 1204 00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:33,680 the national academy of sciences you 1205 00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:34,960 have incredible people at the national 1206 00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:36,560 laboratories you have incredible people 1207 00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:38,880 at the the lockheed martins and the 1208 00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:41,359 boeings and uh they're everywhere and i 1209 00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:43,119 think that um 1210 00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:45,200 it's not exclusive that we need this one 1211 00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:46,960 group of scientists or whatever who 1212 00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:48,800 knows if something's been studied for 1213 00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:50,640 decades and decades they're going to 1214 00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:53,119 choose people that are the best and the 1215 00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:54,640 brightest that can keep their mouths 1216 00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:56,480 shut because it probably has these big 1217 00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:57,760 national security elements that come 1218 00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:59,520 with it um and they're going to find 1219 00:42:03,430 --> 00:42:00,480 people 1220 00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:03,440 that bring value in ways that they need 1221 00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:05,200 it's not just like a blanket like you're 1222 00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:06,640 a great scientist we're going to bring 1223 00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:08,480 you in i mean i as far as i know and 1224 00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,839 what i've learned 1225 00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:11,440 you know black programs don't really 1226 00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:13,920 work that way but i'll tell you directly 1227 00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:16,720 directly direct experience 1228 00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,000 that 1229 00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,560 um in the very beginning everyone said 1230 00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:22,640 that to me and and because they don't 1231 00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:24,319 need to open up a conversation with me 1232 00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,520 they don't need to talk about it they're 1233 00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:27,280 not going to get anything out of it if 1234 00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:28,240 anything and they're just going to get 1235 00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:29,920 in trouble or make them feel like they 1236 00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:31,599 need to go back and report a 1237 00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:33,599 conversation where something slipped or 1238 00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:35,520 something so i just don't think that's 1239 00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:36,720 the right 1240 00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,079 route but what to but what i will say is 1241 00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:42,000 i talk to the former head of the task 1242 00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,640 force uh before it's in its current form 1243 00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:46,560 however that works and i asked him i 1244 00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:48,800 said what's the biggest change 1245 00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:49,680 uh 1246 00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:51,680 now that we we were able to bring the 1247 00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:53,680 ufo subject out into the mainstream and 1248 00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:56,319 he told me he said for the first time 1249 00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:57,920 ever we can talk about this in the halls 1250 00:43:01,990 --> 00:43:00,480 of the pentagon up until this point you 1251 00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:02,000 know it was always in a skiff 1252 00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:04,079 underground somewhere you know 1253 00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:06,079 i heard similar things from alex andy 1254 00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,000 tritch who's a renowned fighter pilot 1255 00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:10,640 who was involved along with uh with 1256 00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:12,400 commander fraver and the so-called tic 1257 00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:14,880 tac incident and one very valuable thing 1258 00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:17,839 that this is elucidated is the um 1259 00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:19,839 breaking down those barriers the the the 1260 00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:22,720 insecurity the you know humiliation the 1261 00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:25,280 the kind of taboo for military pilots 1262 00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,520 who are you know heroes far beyond what 1263 00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:28,960 i'm capable of doing 1264 00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,560 and uh and they volunteer to put their 1265 00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:32,640 lives on the line if these are military 1266 00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,319 threats or even weather balloons or 1267 00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:36,880 whatever uh that we owe it to our war 1268 00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,319 fighters to to make sure that they're 1269 00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:40,560 safe and secure so taking taking away 1270 00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:42,160 the taboo has been incredibly important 1271 00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,839 for me kurt do you have some questions 1272 00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,359 uh from your audience or from you that 1273 00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:47,599 you want to pose because these gentlemen 1274 00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:49,359 have a hard cut out in about 40 minutes 1275 00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:51,280 30 40 minutes yeah there's this person 1276 00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:53,440 named red panda koala tom have you seen 1277 00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:55,520 the documentary on yourself 1278 00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:56,800 i have not 1279 00:44:01,589 --> 00:43:59,280 no a wonderful concise 60-minute 1280 00:44:05,589 --> 00:44:01,599 summation of your work in 1281 00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:05,599 this ufo topic and he or she 1282 00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,680 asks what was it that tom was told that 1283 00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:10,079 kept him up for three days 1284 00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,520 oh well i don't talk about that but 1285 00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:13,280 there was i remember 1286 00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:15,359 um 1287 00:44:19,349 --> 00:44:17,680 i remember having discussions 1288 00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:19,359 the the company that i keep with people 1289 00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:20,720 like jim they just 1290 00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:22,560 you know in how and 1291 00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:24,640 the the the way their minds what's 1292 00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,319 really cool about jim by the way is that 1293 00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:29,040 i've learned how to parse information a 1294 00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:30,880 lot better i'm not going to ever be you 1295 00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:31,680 know 1296 00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:38,480 lot like i like 1297 00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,160 learning how to 1298 00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:42,240 be a little bit more i'm skeptical with 1299 00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,520 information being able to put these 1300 00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,960 things together and think differently 1301 00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,880 but they're all such 1302 00:44:50,790 --> 00:44:48,160 um 1303 00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:50,800 really big thinkers and they don't just 1304 00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:52,480 grab on to a piece of data because it 1305 00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:54,160 exists and says oh this matters and this 1306 00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:55,920 means everything it's very much like 1307 00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:58,400 forming patterns and analyzing over time 1308 00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,319 so i remember like hanging out with all 1309 00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:02,560 these guys in the beginning and and i 1310 00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:05,040 and one of the bigger things um 1311 00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:06,720 was just about me understanding the 1312 00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,720 stakes of this because you come into 1313 00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:10,720 this as a and this kind of answers your 1314 00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:12,560 question about like what keeps me up at 1315 00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,000 night or what kept me up when i was 1316 00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,319 discussing things was not understanding 1317 00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:18,720 the stakes not really coming to grips 1318 00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,520 with this being real like it's one thing 1319 00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:23,359 when you when you see a video or you 1320 00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:24,560 read it in a book you know and you're 1321 00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:26,000 like whoa this is all you know but you 1322 00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:27,359 don't know if the video is real that's 1323 00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:28,880 why it was so important with the ones we 1324 00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,960 brought out had chain a title all the 1325 00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:32,880 way back to the dod so we knew those 1326 00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:34,400 were real it wasn't just like it was on 1327 00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:36,480 youtube and leaked um 1328 00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:38,480 so it's it's the idea of bringing forth 1329 00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:40,160 things that you know 1330 00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:43,440 where they come from and and you really 1331 00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:45,839 take it from that point forward and 1332 00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,160 start um getting really good data and 1333 00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:50,400 evidence on people's encounters and the 1334 00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,480 stakes that come with that and that when 1335 00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:54,319 when i've talked about this 1336 00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,400 as a threat you know this is that's just 1337 00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,480 my words right i mean i would never know 1338 00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:00,880 the way the government treats that 1339 00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:03,359 that's not my my zone obviously 1340 00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:06,000 but for me in my own personal research 1341 00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,599 if something's been here for a long 1342 00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:09,839 period of time and it really is showing 1343 00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:11,440 up in people's bedrooms or in front of 1344 00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:14,880 an f-18 or on a petroglyph wall or in an 1345 00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:16,880 ancient text down in the archives of the 1346 00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,880 vatican or whatever it might be 1347 00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:20,720 it's obviously doing something and it's 1348 00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:22,240 obviously having an influence and it 1349 00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,920 might only be an influence on where we 1350 00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:25,839 end up as mankind or it might be an 1351 00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:29,359 influence to keep us suppressed in a 1352 00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:31,119 weird way to where they can take 1353 00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:34,000 advantage of something who knows um but 1354 00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:35,920 it's here for a reason and it's not 1355 00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:38,319 really being you know forward about its 1356 00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:40,880 intent but we do know that we've been 1357 00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:42,480 dealing with it for a long period of 1358 00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:44,640 time and so when you start coming to 1359 00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:46,400 like the way they think and the stakes 1360 00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,960 involved in the reality of it um and you 1361 00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:50,720 and i start hearing about these 1362 00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:53,119 encounters from the people that were 1363 00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:54,240 there 1364 00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:55,119 um 1365 00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:57,040 i remember in regards to the question 1366 00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,240 you asked 1367 00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:00,240 i was out in colorado springs and i had 1368 00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,480 a meeting with a couple generals 1369 00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:04,560 and we were just shooting the about 1370 00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:07,599 all this stuff um and something was 1371 00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:09,440 discussed that 1372 00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:11,440 you know it wasn't some big classified 1373 00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:13,680 thing it was more like 1374 00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,760 things that people are are having happen 1375 00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:17,520 to them or witnessing 1376 00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:19,680 and it's an issue and i remember waking 1377 00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,359 up in the middle of night just go i i 1378 00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:23,119 was like you start to look around you 1379 00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:25,040 and not really trust your environment 1380 00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:27,599 you know it's like whoa like really like 1381 00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:29,839 this is real like my mom is a is really 1382 00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,079 religious like she's like a born again 1383 00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:34,960 christian and and hardcore fanatic you 1384 00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:37,119 know religious woman and 1385 00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:38,880 and and i grew up in a household my dad 1386 00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:40,400 wasn't so that's part of like the big 1387 00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:42,160 budding of the heads and uh it was a 1388 00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:44,640 broken home but i remember thinking at 1389 00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:47,680 that time frame when i was um 1390 00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:49,119 talking about some of these things that 1391 00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,960 i just want to discuss uh where i was 1392 00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:52,800 where i couldn't sleep very well was i 1393 00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:56,000 was like if my mom really believed that 1394 00:47:59,910 --> 00:47:57,440 jesus 1395 00:48:01,750 --> 00:47:59,920 is real and would show up in her room 1396 00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,760 and float towards her with a crown of 1397 00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,119 thorns i mean she would freak she would 1398 00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:05,280 have a heart attack that would scare her 1399 00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:07,119 even though she bases her whole life on 1400 00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:09,200 it like who she hangs out with where she 1401 00:48:13,910 --> 00:48:11,040 goes on weekends and weeknights who she 1402 00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:13,920 might date or marry again um every call 1403 00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,400 she calls me she's praying but if she so 1404 00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:18,640 she believes this viscerally but if she 1405 00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:20,720 saw something like that 1406 00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:22,319 it's a different deal once it's like 1407 00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:23,680 really real it's not just reading in a 1408 00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:24,960 book and believing in it and that's kind 1409 00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:27,119 of what i came to with the whole ufo 1410 00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:28,640 thing it wasn't just like believing it 1411 00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:31,359 it was like oh my god this is real this 1412 00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,599 is like real not just that we're talking 1413 00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:35,280 about it and we saw it on the news or we 1414 00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:37,119 saw it on youtube it's like when you're 1415 00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:38,559 alone in your bedroom in the middle of 1416 00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:41,920 the night you got to look around and go 1417 00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:44,319 who knows what can happen and 1418 00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:45,839 that's kind of where i've landed over 1419 00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:48,559 the past few years it's just like going 1420 00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:50,240 anything is possible 1421 00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:51,839 does your mom think that what you're 1422 00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:53,920 doing is an act of evil or you're 1423 00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:55,599 studying evil that you shouldn't be 1424 00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:57,520 doing what you're doing she she loves me 1425 00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:59,440 too much and is too supportive to have 1426 00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:00,960 that thought so in her head it's like 1427 00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:03,359 this it's probably a crisis of 1428 00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,200 conscience you know where it's like 1429 00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:07,359 these don't all map up you know but this 1430 00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:10,160 is what i i tell people um and and i 1431 00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:12,160 really believe this i'm not speaking for 1432 00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,680 gem or the company this is my own 1433 00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:14,880 personal thing 1434 00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:17,200 i i have a feeling 1435 00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:19,920 that when we when we really learn about 1436 00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,000 consciousness and we really learn 1437 00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,240 kind of what these these things are this 1438 00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:26,559 phenomena is i think we're going to like 1439 00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:27,920 i said earlier we're going to merge 1440 00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:29,599 these this metaphysical consciousness 1441 00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:31,680 type of science with normal science and 1442 00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:34,079 once it becomes all one we're gonna look 1443 00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:36,319 at we might look at uh religions 1444 00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:37,680 differently but i think everyone's gonna 1445 00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,599 be able to keep the things they love 1446 00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:41,280 which is really not all the dogma and 1447 00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,960 the stories that we argue about but when 1448 00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:44,640 it comes down to 1449 00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:46,720 you know the father the son the holy 1450 00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,440 spirit or godhead um 1451 00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:51,280 your soul and the physical body it's all 1452 00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:53,040 the same three things that trinity thing 1453 00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:54,240 it's like kind of everywhere it's all 1454 00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:55,119 about 1455 00:49:59,510 --> 00:49:57,359 you as a person with your connection to 1456 00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:59,520 consciousness you know the father the 1457 00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:01,599 son the holy spirit kind of thing so i 1458 00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,119 think what will happen is everyone's so 1459 00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:05,280 scared that religions will crumble and 1460 00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,640 i'm kind of like no it's going to be the 1461 00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:08,480 great equalizer that the only three 1462 00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:10,000 things that matter in all of these 1463 00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:11,280 things is 1464 00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:12,880 us as a physical person with our 1465 00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:15,599 connection to something bigger and um 1466 00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,040 and i and so i don't think people are 1467 00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:19,200 going to be alienated i don't think they 1468 00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:21,839 might you know be bummed that the story 1469 00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:24,400 of the locusts coming out didn't apply 1470 00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:26,319 you know or something but i think that 1471 00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,720 the things that matter stay 1472 00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,640 which is you know i used to go to my mom 1473 00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:32,720 and say like you know i'll go why are 1474 00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:34,800 you a christian like why like what is it 1475 00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:37,280 show i i know it i've seen things i've 1476 00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:39,359 felt things i just know in my heart but 1477 00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:41,280 then you know and she goes and we've 1478 00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:43,119 healed the blind we prayed and they can 1479 00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,400 heal the blind that's happened i'm all 1480 00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:46,480 but that's happened in islam too 1481 00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:48,400 it has so why is it happening in other 1482 00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,960 religions and here and my whole point 1483 00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:53,359 was it's not about the stories it's it's 1484 00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:54,400 it's physics 1485 00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:56,160 and um and people like yourself are 1486 00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:57,599 going to help us all understand that 1487 00:51:02,950 --> 00:50:59,839 here in the future you know yeah 1488 00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:02,960 so uh so jim antom a question from sarah 1489 00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:04,319 scholes who's a friend of mine who wrote 1490 00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,359 a book they are already here uh about in 1491 00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:09,440 part about tom uh she's a she's a 1492 00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:11,760 wonderful soul uh she asks about you 1493 00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:13,760 know where do things go from now uh and 1494 00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:16,720 here maybe uh now that elizondo luis 1495 00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:18,240 elizondo and chris mellen aren't part of 1496 00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:21,040 ttsa um how does that affect your 1497 00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:23,040 mission guys is that is that you know 1498 00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:24,000 should that how should that be 1499 00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,760 interpreted you know if you were not 1500 00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,760 being you know uh charitable you might 1501 00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:29,280 say oh that's a you know that's a sign 1502 00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:31,280 they have internal strife and you know 1503 00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:33,280 what what but is there some other 1504 00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:34,960 explanation or you know where do you see 1505 00:51:38,390 --> 00:51:36,640 things going now that these two very 1506 00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:38,400 prominent you know supporters of the 1507 00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:40,559 narrative uh that you guys are also you 1508 00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:43,040 know supporting have departed from ttsa 1509 00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:44,319 at least i understand from jim that you 1510 00:51:48,069 --> 00:51:46,079 guys are on good terms but where do you 1511 00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:48,079 go from here well i mean 1512 00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:49,520 a lot there's so much going on number 1513 00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:51,040 one the pandemic we're a startup so 1514 00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:53,280 we're not giant you know we have we have 1515 00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:54,800 more people from the government that 1516 00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:56,240 want to be a part of what we're doing 1517 00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,960 than we have space for so that's not the 1518 00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:00,880 issue with those people in particular 1519 00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,200 when the pandemic hit it really 1520 00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:05,200 caused us as a young company to choose 1521 00:52:09,670 --> 00:52:06,720 one lane rather than trying to do 1522 00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,680 multiple lanes and during the pandemic 1523 00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:11,440 the defense authorization act they they 1524 00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:13,200 didn't they couldn't get it passed they 1525 00:52:17,829 --> 00:52:15,359 couldn't fund any more 1526 00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,839 research projects with new companies new 1527 00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:20,000 programs and we were a new company with 1528 00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:22,640 a new program um so we were kind of 1529 00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:25,680 stuck in this like quicksand of waiting 1530 00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:27,200 and waiting to try to get some things 1531 00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:29,520 off the ground but where we had a you 1532 00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:32,160 know a ton of traction was in the 1533 00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:33,760 entertainment part where we already had 1534 00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:35,440 product selling we had movies coming we 1535 00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:37,680 had tv series coming and so it just 1536 00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:40,720 created um an opportunity to focus the 1537 00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:43,119 company and get everything really 1538 00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:44,960 streamlined to grow quickly without 1539 00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,559 trying to dilute ourselves in places 1540 00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,160 where we can't compete with a lockheed 1541 00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:50,160 martin or whatever but we really wanted 1542 00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:52,000 to get these things off the ground some 1543 00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:53,760 of these early programs some of which 1544 00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:54,720 hal 1545 00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:56,480 is still chasing some of which like we 1546 00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:57,920 still have an open contract with the 1547 00:53:01,829 --> 00:52:59,200 government on some of the material that 1548 00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:01,839 we got but chris mellon without i don't 1549 00:53:05,670 --> 00:53:03,280 want to speak for him but i do know 1550 00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:05,680 chris is involved in a lot of things 1551 00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:07,760 back in dc specifically with trying to 1552 00:53:11,190 --> 00:53:09,440 get this thing pressed through congress 1553 00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:11,200 and with oversight and the task force 1554 00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:14,400 and he's so deep in it that um i think 1555 00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:17,680 it frees up a lot of time and gets him 1556 00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:18,559 kind of 1557 00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:21,280 away from the entertainment part which 1558 00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:22,960 you don't really it doesn't mix well 1559 00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:24,480 with the government stuff and jim it'll 1560 00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:25,680 be better for you to talk about some of 1561 00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:27,760 this stuff but that was what we kind of 1562 00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:30,240 found was some of those issues i guess 1563 00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:30,960 yeah 1564 00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:33,040 that's pretty much it and and um you 1565 00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:35,839 know i think i think chris needed to go 1566 00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:37,839 uh his own way as with lou uh they 1567 00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:39,680 wanted to pursue other things that that 1568 00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,640 weren't 1569 00:53:45,030 --> 00:53:42,640 quote entertainment focus 1570 00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:45,040 i get that completely and they are they 1571 00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:46,319 are doing i think it's just an 1572 00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:49,200 outstanding job uh both of them you know 1573 00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:50,480 i'm just 1574 00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:53,280 huge fans we're all huge fans of them 1575 00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:55,359 they they were really courageous to do 1576 00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:56,400 what they did 1577 00:54:01,589 --> 00:53:59,200 they had their reputations and you know 1578 00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:01,599 lou i had met with before while he was 1579 00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:04,000 the head of atip and i sort of done some 1580 00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:06,400 unofficial consulting with him uh early 1581 00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:09,200 on and um i just my hats off to him it's 1582 00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:11,680 just a great great man as with chris so 1583 00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:13,440 they're they're doing i think they're 1584 00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:15,119 doing god's work you know so i we're 1585 00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:16,960 we're huge fans any way we can help them 1586 00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:18,800 we certainly will in terms of the 1587 00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:20,880 partnership between ttsa and the 1588 00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:22,960 government there was i didn't actually 1589 00:54:27,510 --> 00:54:24,960 see this but according to my friend mick 1590 00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:27,520 west he says jj abrams ufo documentary 1591 00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:30,960 episode 3 suggests ttsa might be part of 1592 00:54:35,109 --> 00:54:33,680 a government disinformation program 1593 00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:35,119 that's what i signed up for i was like 1594 00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:38,400 how do i lie to my friends and my family 1595 00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:40,319 can i just comment on that first of all 1596 00:54:44,790 --> 00:54:42,559 you know that's that's rather insulting 1597 00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:44,800 it's insulting you know not only to me 1598 00:54:48,069 --> 00:54:46,319 and you know and all the people that 1599 00:54:50,710 --> 00:54:48,079 work for the government what have you 1600 00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:50,720 you can't have a disinformation program 1601 00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:54,079 in the government it it's it's illegal 1602 00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:55,280 can't do that 1603 00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:57,440 um i wouldn't do that personally i mean 1604 00:55:01,990 --> 00:54:59,839 i i that's just that's terrible and and 1605 00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:02,000 you know you cannot influence the 1606 00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:04,160 population of the united states you 1607 00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,319 government governments can't do that 1608 00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:08,160 it's called an operation and you can't 1609 00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:10,880 have that uh it's it's not we we don't 1610 00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:13,440 do that and um uh as a matter of fact 1611 00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:15,040 you know it's one of the reasons i don't 1612 00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:17,119 like going on shows 1613 00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:18,640 uh because when people come up with 1614 00:55:21,030 --> 00:55:20,000 these questions you know you sort of sit 1615 00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:21,040 there and you look at them and say well 1616 00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:22,240 if you really knew how the government 1617 00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:23,280 worked 1618 00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:25,920 um you know when i was in cia i mean you 1619 00:55:28,790 --> 00:55:27,520 know when i was in the senior service at 1620 00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:28,800 one point i was running rather large 1621 00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:30,000 programs 1622 00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:32,240 i had lawyers all around me i mean you 1623 00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:34,160 couldn't make a decision without making 1624 00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:35,520 sure that you were right on the money 1625 00:55:38,069 --> 00:55:36,400 and we 1626 00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:38,079 say i in particular it's a great 1627 00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:39,680 organization i mean they made a lot of 1628 00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:41,599 mistakes in the past but by and large 1629 00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:43,040 it's a very very straight-laced 1630 00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:45,920 organization you do not do anything 1631 00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:47,760 uh that would in any way harm a u.s 1632 00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:51,359 citizen or uh or uh or the population in 1633 00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:54,000 general so that's just uh that's bogus 1634 00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,760 yeah i know okay i i appreciate that so 1635 00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,599 much and and believe me you know and no 1636 00:56:04,150 --> 00:55:59,280 one has more respect that didn't serve 1637 00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,510 you know i mean one thing just to 1638 00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:07,599 criticize um the government that i do 1639 00:56:11,030 --> 00:56:08,960 love and support and that's the best 1640 00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:11,040 country on earth i'll say that uh uh 1641 00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:12,880 except maybe canada kurt's gonna speak 1642 00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:15,440 up about the 51st state to the north up 1643 00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:17,760 there but anyway in all seriousness you 1644 00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,480 know i look at kova 19 and i look at you 1645 00:56:24,789 --> 00:56:22,240 know the trillions of dollars that go 1646 00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:24,799 from our 16 of our entire budget goes to 1647 00:56:29,829 --> 00:56:28,319 the military cia fbi all these nsa we 1648 00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:29,839 didn't i remember going to dinner in 1649 00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:32,960 2020 in january 2020 my friend told me 1650 00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:34,400 you just got an invitation to go to 1651 00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:35,680 china are you going to go brian i said i 1652 00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:37,040 don't know and he said you shouldn't go 1653 00:56:40,069 --> 00:56:38,559 because china's building this hospital 1654 00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:40,079 slash prison they're going to start 1655 00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,280 locking people in because this thing 1656 00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:43,119 called covet i said okay well i'll keep 1657 00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:44,559 my eye on it i'm not going to go to not 1658 00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:46,400 not rush to go to tibet anyway i'd love 1659 00:56:50,789 --> 00:56:49,040 to go someday but uh but they knew about 1660 00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:50,799 it my friend at dinner knew about it in 1661 00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:53,520 other words jim and trillions of dollars 1662 00:56:58,150 --> 00:56:55,680 of of and the countless lives that were 1663 00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:58,160 lost precious individual lives lost in 1664 00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:00,160 america because you know and you think 1665 00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:02,559 with this huge apparatus uh that they'd 1666 00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:04,640 be capable of doing something preventing 1667 00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:05,839 something and i don't want to get into 1668 00:57:09,109 --> 00:57:07,680 politics i i hate politics and that's 1669 00:57:11,349 --> 00:57:09,119 why i'm an astronomer because there's no 1670 00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:11,359 democratic comet there's no republican 1671 00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:13,040 asteroid right so talk about the 1672 00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:15,040 government like could they do could they 1673 00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:17,040 cover up something like this could they 1674 00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:19,119 do it malevolently as you're saying the 1675 00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:21,040 cia's basically let's just call it what 1676 00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:22,319 it is you're saying they're comprised of 1677 00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:24,000 good people good men and women honest 1678 00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:26,400 patriots um how come they weren't on top 1679 00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:28,000 of something like covid which was you 1680 00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:30,319 know known to my dinner party guests 1681 00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:31,680 well you know 1682 00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:34,160 let me just say this uh the last 10 1683 00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:35,760 years 1684 00:57:39,910 --> 00:57:37,280 i consulted with the intelligence 1685 00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:39,920 community and i was working on a counter 1686 00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:41,760 biological weapons 1687 00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:44,559 and one of the corollaries of that was 1688 00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:46,160 you know working on pandemics and 1689 00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:48,480 talking about pandemics i can't tell you 1690 00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,079 how many meetings i sat in with the 1691 00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,480 government from people that did nothing 1692 00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:54,880 but talk about the coming pandemic cia 1693 00:57:59,829 --> 00:57:56,720 has written intelligence assessments on 1694 00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,839 it so has dia i mean almost every 1695 00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:01,599 government agency has come out and 1696 00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:02,480 warned 1697 00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:03,680 people that this is going to be 1698 00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:05,599 happening down the road and it's just a 1699 00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:06,640 question of 1700 00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:09,680 when but the problem with this is um 1701 00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:11,839 nobody listens the government does not 1702 00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:13,760 listen the congress doesn't listen and 1703 00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:16,000 the senate doesn't listen until it 1704 00:58:20,549 --> 00:58:18,160 happens and when it happens they jump up 1705 00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:20,559 in the air start pointing fingers it's a 1706 00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:22,799 shame it really truly is 9 11 was the 1707 00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:24,160 same way we were screaming you know 1708 00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:26,079 bloody murder about uh you know about 1709 00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:27,760 osama bin laden this is this is what's 1710 00:58:31,510 --> 00:58:29,440 going to happen and we think this is 1711 00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:31,520 going to happen soon and people just 1712 00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:33,760 look at it and you know say well i don't 1713 00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:35,920 really believe it could happen right but 1714 00:58:39,670 --> 00:58:38,160 um now in many i mean there are a lot of 1715 00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:39,680 times where the intelligence community 1716 00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:42,240 fails but but a lot of these no we were 1717 00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:44,079 not we were right on top of all this 1718 00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:45,280 early on 1719 00:58:50,789 --> 00:58:47,680 but nobody wanted to spend money 1720 00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:50,799 billions of dollars creating 1721 00:58:56,390 --> 00:58:54,480 uh say a a a you know a a vaccine that 1722 00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,400 that could you know help you know 1723 00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:58,079 something when when there wasn't one 1724 00:59:01,670 --> 00:58:59,599 where there wasn't a when there wasn't a 1725 00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:01,680 pathogen out there yet so 1726 00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:03,280 and you know the government budgets i 1727 00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,880 mean like we can have a whole program on 1728 00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,480 on government budgets and how money is 1729 00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:08,400 spent and it's usually spent on 1730 00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:10,079 quarterly things the things that you 1731 00:59:14,470 --> 00:59:11,839 absolutely have to do so anything that's 1732 00:59:15,990 --> 00:59:14,480 looking in the future like uaps by the 1733 00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:16,000 way you know 1734 00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:18,319 low probability high impact events like 1735 00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:20,799 that they don't get the kind of 1736 00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:22,640 attention they deserve 1737 00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:24,720 but you're right i agree with you 1738 00:59:28,069 --> 00:59:25,920 you want to ask 1739 00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:28,079 some of your viewers questions yeah well 1740 00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:30,319 about the government not 1741 00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:32,079 participating in disinformation i'm 1742 00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:33,839 curious there's 1743 00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,760 mk ultra project mockingbird or 1744 00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:37,680 operation mockingbird and project blue 1745 00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:39,040 book and quite a few others so what do 1746 00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:41,760 you make of that and also even if it is 1747 00:59:44,069 --> 00:59:42,720 illegal 1748 00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:44,079 it's not as if the government hasn't 1749 00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:46,720 done what's illegal before oh no no the 1750 00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:48,400 government has 1751 00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:50,960 oh absolutely i'm not making excuses for 1752 00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,799 the government i mean the government 1753 00:59:55,950 --> 00:59:54,960 has done some terrible things it wasn't 1754 00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:55,960 until 1755 01:00:01,510 --> 00:59:59,359 1976 for instance when the cia was was 1756 01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:01,520 held held accountable is really when all 1757 01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,400 that stopped when mk ultra came out and 1758 01:00:08,470 --> 01:00:06,559 and and um i can't remember the name of 1759 01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:08,480 the commission but it was uh gerald ford 1760 01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:13,910 actually gave presentations on it i 1761 01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:15,119 don't know why it's slipping my mind 1762 01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:17,599 right now but but essentially a ramparts 1763 01:00:21,109 --> 01:00:19,359 magazine had a big article on this and 1764 01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:21,119 and the and the intelligence community 1765 01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:23,200 just changed right there i mean as mk 1766 01:00:27,670 --> 01:00:25,920 ultra was a program 1767 01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:27,680 you know they were experimenting with 1768 01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:30,000 you know with with hallucinogenics 1769 01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:31,280 because they thought that to control 1770 01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:32,640 people's minds because they knew that 1771 01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:34,000 the russians were experimenting with it 1772 01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:35,520 so they were doing it 1773 01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:38,000 it was a terrible terrible program um 1774 01:00:42,470 --> 01:00:41,200 and it was an awful program people died 1775 01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:42,480 but you know and then they burned all 1776 01:00:46,150 --> 01:00:43,760 the files so we don't know what the hell 1777 01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:46,160 happened um uh and and this this has 1778 01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:48,400 gone on through you know 1779 01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:49,680 throughout the government and very 1780 01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:51,440 beginnings but as the government gets 1781 01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:53,119 older and as we learn from these 1782 01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:56,559 mistakes things really do get better um 1783 01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:58,480 uh so yeah i mean when you look at like 1784 01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,319 the condon report that was a it was a 1785 01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:02,000 total whitewash 1786 01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:04,400 and 1787 01:01:09,829 --> 01:01:07,520 know we're just gonna we're just gonna 1788 01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:09,839 make fun of people who believe in uaps 1789 01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:11,760 and ufos and all this kind of stuff and 1790 01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:13,040 that was awesome they shouldn't have 1791 01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,160 done that 1792 01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:16,240 uh and it was actually one of the 1793 01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:17,760 reasons why 1794 01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:19,680 a lot of us and this 1795 01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:21,119 these unofficial government workers 1796 01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:22,640 decided we're going to go out we're 1797 01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:25,119 going to take this private and i we told 1798 01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:26,400 the highest levels of government that's 1799 01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:28,319 what we're going to be doing 1800 01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,960 because they can't seem to get this out 1801 01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:33,280 i don't know why i've had talks with 1802 01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:35,359 them but they can't get it out and none 1803 01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:37,119 of them had any issues with us doing 1804 01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:38,799 this they didn't have any issues with 1805 01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:41,440 tom i mean it was just go ahead go ahead 1806 01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:42,960 and keep us posted 1807 01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:45,440 if you want you know and we do 1808 01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:47,359 we do and if we ever come across 1809 01:01:50,309 --> 01:01:49,119 information we'll share it with them um 1810 01:01:51,750 --> 01:01:50,319 you know we're not 1811 01:01:53,430 --> 01:01:51,760 anti-government by any stretch of the 1812 01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:53,440 imagination but we certainly don't show 1813 01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:55,359 for them and we certainly don't work for 1814 01:01:58,309 --> 01:01:56,160 them 1815 01:02:00,789 --> 01:01:58,319 i have a quick question 1816 01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:00,799 are you aware of any government whether 1817 01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:03,920 it's our own having possession of 1818 01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:10,069 are you asking me any 1819 01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:11,359 jim or tom 1820 01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:13,520 i'm not going to comment on them yeah 1821 01:02:17,030 --> 01:02:15,280 i'm not you know i think there's no way 1822 01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:17,040 for us to be aware i mean we all hear 1823 01:02:20,789 --> 01:02:18,880 the stories we all talk about it online 1824 01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:20,799 or read about it online 1825 01:02:23,829 --> 01:02:22,559 um you know we're that's one of the 1826 01:02:26,309 --> 01:02:23,839 reasons why we're trying to figure out 1827 01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:26,319 about the material that we got so 1828 01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:28,799 we have material from a purported crash 1829 01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:30,400 in the late 40s we don't really have a 1830 01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:32,000 chain of title all the way back then we 1831 01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:34,400 do for like 20 years or something we 1832 01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:36,400 know there's a lot of anomalies about 1833 01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:38,400 the way it's engineered we have some 1834 01:02:41,270 --> 01:02:39,839 theories of what it can do there's been 1835 01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:41,280 a lot of studies on it the government's 1836 01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:42,960 very interested in this piece but if 1837 01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:44,640 that piece ended up being real then it's 1838 01:02:48,309 --> 01:02:46,799 like well what else was it a part of and 1839 01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:48,319 who was piloting this thing was it a 1840 01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:51,359 drone was it not i think it kind of 1841 01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:54,400 gets us to ask a lot of questions um 1842 01:02:58,950 --> 01:02:56,559 i have you know i'm i'm under the 1843 01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,960 thinking that you know if there's things 1844 01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:00,480 that have been around here for thousands 1845 01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,640 of years then there's absolutely the 1846 01:03:06,789 --> 01:03:04,400 potential for some of these stories to 1847 01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:06,799 be real the problem is is like 1848 01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:08,319 you're not going to get anybody to come 1849 01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:09,119 out 1850 01:03:14,309 --> 01:03:11,920 and just say that um 1851 01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:14,319 so easily i i think that there's steps 1852 01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:16,000 to this you know i look at the task 1853 01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:17,680 force report and i look at what's going 1854 01:03:20,069 --> 01:03:18,960 on now and 1855 01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:20,079 and if i 1856 01:03:23,670 --> 01:03:22,160 if there was such a thing like bodies or 1857 01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:23,680 craft or whatever 1858 01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:24,480 um 1859 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:26,880 and they're so advanced and they're 1860 01:03:28,829 --> 01:03:27,530 somehow 1861 01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:28,839 [Music] 1862 01:03:34,390 --> 01:03:31,680 influencing the you know mankind and the 1863 01:03:36,069 --> 01:03:34,400 way we are engineered to evolve or 1864 01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:36,079 something crazy i mean because i look at 1865 01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:38,000 us now it's like first we we got into 1866 01:03:41,589 --> 01:03:39,440 the biology of our bodies and then we 1867 01:03:44,150 --> 01:03:41,599 got deeper and we got into like you know 1868 01:03:45,910 --> 01:03:44,160 um dna and what that's doing and every 1869 01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:45,920 time we master parts of the body and 1870 01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,240 parts of you know the world we see and 1871 01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,400 touch and feel like what's the next 1872 01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:52,079 thing well i think the next thing is 1873 01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:53,359 going to be discovering consciousness 1874 01:03:55,990 --> 01:03:54,319 and then we're going to go how do we 1875 01:03:57,910 --> 01:03:56,000 manipulate consciousness and how do we 1876 01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:57,920 capture it and how do we are you know so 1877 01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:59,760 i'm kind of thinking if this these 1878 01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:01,920 beings have been around for so long they 1879 01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:04,960 must be in they must be so far beyond 1880 01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:06,880 like wondering about our dna or 1881 01:04:11,430 --> 01:04:08,799 wondering about like what our spleen 1882 01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:11,440 does i think it's going to be 1883 01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:12,640 probably 1884 01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:18,000 a lot that we don't know and so the idea 1885 01:04:21,270 --> 01:04:19,119 of the government just coming out and 1886 01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:21,280 saying hey look what we got before they 1887 01:04:25,589 --> 01:04:23,680 know what it is doesn't make any sense 1888 01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:25,599 to me and i tell my friends this i go if 1889 01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:27,440 someone like jim 1890 01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:29,280 caught some dude sneaking a nuclear 1891 01:04:34,390 --> 01:04:32,079 weapon you know through the border uh of 1892 01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:34,400 canada somewhere into the states you 1893 01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:36,880 know are they gonna stop and tell us all 1894 01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,960 about it and really just talk about it 1895 01:04:42,549 --> 01:04:40,319 or are they going to go and try and 1896 01:04:44,309 --> 01:04:42,559 track down the guy who he was working 1897 01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:44,319 with where he got the parts where the 1898 01:04:48,630 --> 01:04:46,720 device is got it goes on and it might 1899 01:04:51,190 --> 01:04:48,640 take some time now imagine if that 1900 01:04:52,870 --> 01:04:51,200 device was like handing an iphone to a 1901 01:04:55,029 --> 01:04:52,880 cow and the cow was like i gotta figure 1902 01:04:58,230 --> 01:04:55,039 out what this iphone is so i think that 1903 01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:58,240 the logical steps that one would take 1904 01:05:01,430 --> 01:05:00,160 are exactly kind of what's happening 1905 01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:01,440 which was 1906 01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:03,839 a number of years trying to figure out 1907 01:05:08,789 --> 01:05:06,000 something trying to come up with a plan 1908 01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:08,799 that helped understand it or whatever 1909 01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:11,520 and then it's like okay now let's create 1910 01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:13,520 a proper organization to start getting 1911 01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:16,000 more data and letting people know that 1912 01:05:19,990 --> 01:05:17,520 the data is real and that we need to 1913 01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:20,000 study this and then over time being able 1914 01:05:23,109 --> 01:05:21,520 to say this is what we learned you know 1915 01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:23,119 it's real and now we're studying it and 1916 01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:25,520 this is how they fly and it looks like 1917 01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:26,960 they might be doing this and that you 1918 01:05:31,109 --> 01:05:28,880 know and so i think we're doing the 1919 01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:31,119 logical steps now that might one day 1920 01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:32,240 lead to 1921 01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:34,880 we've collected some stuff you know but 1922 01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:36,960 i don't think that if they even if they 1923 01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:38,240 did 1924 01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,160 i wouldn't knowing what i know about 1925 01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:42,240 this subject which isn't like a lot i 1926 01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:44,640 feel like it's a lot but but who knows 1927 01:05:48,309 --> 01:05:46,720 um because they say like studying space 1928 01:05:50,150 --> 01:05:48,319 is like if we were to study the oceans 1929 01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:50,160 it's like we know a half a cup of water 1930 01:05:54,150 --> 01:05:51,839 of the oceans that's how much we know 1931 01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:54,160 about states yeah so i just i think this 1932 01:05:58,390 --> 01:05:56,160 is i think you're seeing 1933 01:06:01,349 --> 01:05:58,400 a rational logical progression of 1934 01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:01,359 something extremely complicated starting 1935 01:06:06,870 --> 01:06:04,480 to be formed to come out after a long 1936 01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:06,880 period of time of digging in and trying 1937 01:06:10,470 --> 01:06:08,720 to wrap their heads around it that's 1938 01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:10,480 what it looks like to me taboo and a 1939 01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:13,200 baby and you in particular tom you know 1940 01:06:16,829 --> 01:06:15,200 doing yeoman's work to make this less 1941 01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:16,839 taboo to make it into the public 1942 01:06:21,670 --> 01:06:19,119 consciousness um and yet i'm curious how 1943 01:06:24,309 --> 01:06:21,680 you react to my colleagues professors 1944 01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:24,319 astronomers who spend our days you know 1945 01:06:28,230 --> 01:06:26,640 i heard um i heard commander fravor 1946 01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:28,240 saying on lex friedman's podcast you 1947 01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:30,240 know we are trained pilots we're trained 1948 01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:32,079 to use our senses our eyes and our tools 1949 01:06:35,190 --> 01:06:33,680 and our technology well so are 1950 01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:35,200 astronomers we're pretty good at looking 1951 01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:37,520 up and things in space we survey the sky 1952 01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:39,039 with high cadence with quite great 1953 01:06:42,549 --> 01:06:40,880 frequency some right here in southern 1954 01:06:44,470 --> 01:06:42,559 california as you know look out your 1955 01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:44,480 window and see mount palomar 1956 01:06:47,910 --> 01:06:46,240 but i want to ask you how do you react 1957 01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:47,920 to those that say well astronomers would 1958 01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:49,599 like nothing better than for these craft 1959 01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:52,160 to be real again so that we could bypass 1960 01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:54,000 the the line and skip from the 1961 01:06:59,349 --> 01:06:56,960 equivalent of euclid 2 000 years ago to 1962 01:07:01,589 --> 01:06:59,359 uh to einstein you know uh that would be 1963 01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:01,599 a tremendous boost towards humanity and 1964 01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:03,280 no one would have a negative state in 1965 01:07:07,270 --> 01:07:04,960 that in the astronomical community you 1966 01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:07,280 might say the government does uh and 1967 01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:08,640 that they want to keep us you know 1968 01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:09,839 comfortable and happy and not in 1969 01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:12,400 revolution but big astronomy doesn't 1970 01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:14,319 exist so how do you react to that that 1971 01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:15,599 astronomers would like nothing more for 1972 01:07:19,510 --> 01:07:17,200 these to be real we don't have credible 1973 01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:19,520 reports in any sensor and any wavelength 1974 01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:22,000 any frequency any uh polarization time 1975 01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:23,760 of day year that where it's really 1976 01:07:27,430 --> 01:07:25,920 credibly come out and been verified 1977 01:07:29,349 --> 01:07:27,440 peer-reviewed however you like to say it 1978 01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,359 how do you react to those kinds of 1979 01:07:33,750 --> 01:07:32,160 of assertions um well two two things for 1980 01:07:36,870 --> 01:07:33,760 me and i think jim will have some really 1981 01:07:38,470 --> 01:07:36,880 great insight on this um as usual but i 1982 01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,480 the two things for me are number one 1983 01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:40,480 there has been that stuff it has been 1984 01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:42,400 picked up that was one of chris mellon's 1985 01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:44,079 big pushes is that all of these 1986 01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:45,680 satellites that are doing thermal 1987 01:07:50,710 --> 01:07:47,839 imaging watching animal migrations 1988 01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:50,720 weather satellites spy satellites it 1989 01:07:55,589 --> 01:07:53,280 collects data all day long and he's like 1990 01:07:57,670 --> 01:07:55,599 we need to scan that data and we need to 1991 01:07:59,910 --> 01:07:57,680 find out you know if this weather 1992 01:08:01,109 --> 01:07:59,920 satellite picked up um 1993 01:08:02,789 --> 01:08:01,119 you know uh 1994 01:08:04,390 --> 01:08:02,799 there's a little roman right there you 1995 01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:04,400 need sound you need to send this weather 1996 01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:05,760 satellite picked up something flying 1997 01:08:08,789 --> 01:08:06,960 through but these satellites aren't 1998 01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,799 really geared to pick up things moving 1999 01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:10,400 20 000 miles an hour and doing a 90 2000 01:08:13,589 --> 01:08:12,160 degree turn but it still might be in 2001 01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:13,599 there but we have to do some software to 2002 01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:15,440 kind of pull it out but then we have the 2003 01:08:18,709 --> 01:08:17,120 videos that come out there's so many 2004 01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:18,719 more videos that we know that are 2005 01:08:21,749 --> 01:08:20,319 probably classified not so much because 2006 01:08:23,829 --> 01:08:21,759 of what's on it but maybe where they 2007 01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:23,839 filmed it or how good the resolution is 2008 01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:26,000 or whatever those things are but those 2009 01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:28,000 things do exist we have filmed these 2010 01:08:31,269 --> 01:08:29,520 things the military has them the 2011 01:08:32,550 --> 01:08:31,279 government has them on the best systems 2012 01:08:34,870 --> 01:08:32,560 that have ever been created in the 2013 01:08:37,030 --> 01:08:34,880 history of man on the spy one radar the 2014 01:08:39,110 --> 01:08:37,040 uss princeton and these top gun pilots 2015 01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:39,120 and top gun radar controllers capturing 2016 01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:41,679 the stuff with with their eyeballs with 2017 01:08:45,749 --> 01:08:43,600 the sensors with the people in the 2018 01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:45,759 planes all that stuff is there the 2019 01:08:50,550 --> 01:08:48,719 second thing is is i don't personally 2020 01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:50,560 and i don't know this but i don't think 2021 01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:52,080 these are coming from space i don't 2022 01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:53,679 think they're coming from deep space so 2023 01:08:56,550 --> 01:08:54,960 we're looking 2024 01:08:58,229 --> 01:08:56,560 at the oceans but we're wondering where 2025 01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:58,239 we're going to find a planet 2026 01:09:01,510 --> 01:08:59,440 you know you're not going to find one 2027 01:09:03,510 --> 01:09:01,520 there you know so i think 2028 01:09:04,789 --> 01:09:03,520 it's better that we're 2029 01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:04,799 monitoring 2030 01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:07,359 you know the area around our planet and 2031 01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:10,080 and what things are materializing in 2032 01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:12,000 this realm and that so i think 2033 01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:14,400 astronomers are looking far out and i'm 2034 01:09:18,070 --> 01:09:16,640 not exclu i'm not saying that there 2035 01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:18,080 aren't there isn't other life out there 2036 01:09:20,950 --> 01:09:19,520 and they're not sending drones out or 2037 01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:20,960 maybe they're got advanced enough to 2038 01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:23,120 travel i'm not saying that i just have 2039 01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:25,279 this feeling that the universe 2040 01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:27,440 is more of a duality structure where 2041 01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:30,080 time can extend in two directions in the 2042 01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:32,400 exact same moment in the exact same 2043 01:09:36,229 --> 01:09:34,960 place which means people that are very 2044 01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:36,239 advanced or things that are very 2045 01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:38,799 advanced can just pop over 2046 01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:41,120 like a radio station and 2047 01:09:44,470 --> 01:09:43,040 that's why we're not seeing them because 2048 01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:44,480 we're looking out at mars or we're 2049 01:09:47,829 --> 01:09:46,159 looking out at like alpha centauri and 2050 01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:47,839 we're like where's it coming from you 2051 01:09:52,229 --> 01:09:49,920 know it's like no it's it's in utah it's 2052 01:09:54,709 --> 01:09:52,239 just in the future or something and um 2053 01:09:56,149 --> 01:09:54,719 so i think i think we're gonna learn and 2054 01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:56,159 think around 2055 01:10:00,470 --> 01:09:58,320 those lines um and and i think 2056 01:10:01,750 --> 01:10:00,480 astronomers are totally capable i mean 2057 01:10:04,709 --> 01:10:01,760 these are some of the smartest people in 2058 01:10:05,590 --> 01:10:04,719 the world i think maybe it's like adding 2059 01:10:09,590 --> 01:10:05,600 to 2060 01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:09,600 they look for and look at and where they 2061 01:10:13,990 --> 01:10:11,760 look would be kind of cool you know 2062 01:10:16,709 --> 01:10:14,000 getting you guys to look at 2063 01:10:19,110 --> 01:10:16,719 you know frequency and duality theory 2064 01:10:21,510 --> 01:10:19,120 and time existing at one moment in the 2065 01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:21,520 same location and you know so it's not 2066 01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:23,280 just looking at stars it's kind of how 2067 01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:24,960 do you react to the new uh project 2068 01:10:29,189 --> 01:10:26,880 galileo professor gavi loeb who's the 2069 01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:29,199 chairman of the harvard astronomy uh 2070 01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:31,280 department for longer than any other 2071 01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:33,760 person you feel like that's a sign of 2072 01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:35,840 progress that that's being made and 2073 01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:37,440 mainstreaming it 2074 01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:40,000 um any anybody that's interested in 2075 01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:41,600 looking for these things and treating 2076 01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:43,920 them as real is is really good for the 2077 01:10:48,709 --> 01:10:46,320 scientific community um that's why our 2078 01:10:51,510 --> 01:10:48,719 company exists is to like create that 2079 01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:51,520 opportunity where the stigma is gone 2080 01:10:54,310 --> 01:10:52,400 um 2081 01:10:55,270 --> 01:10:54,320 i'll tell you like 2082 01:11:12,709 --> 01:10:55,280 i 2083 01:11:14,470 --> 01:11:12,719 all of a sudden someone else says one 2084 01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:14,480 more thing and it changes everything i 2085 01:11:18,149 --> 01:11:15,840 thought i knew and i was like oh my god 2086 01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:18,159 i got it so wrong and then you know it's 2087 01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:20,080 it it's difficult to comprehend 2088 01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:21,280 especially for a guy like me i'm not 2089 01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:23,440 like you i don't i didn't go to college 2090 01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:26,159 i didn't study science i don't have but 2091 01:11:29,590 --> 01:11:28,000 i that ability but i'm a pretty clever 2092 01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:29,600 guy and i could find patterns pretty 2093 01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:32,480 easily um and uh and i'm constantly 2094 01:11:36,229 --> 01:11:34,080 learning i'm constantly open to learning 2095 01:11:38,229 --> 01:11:36,239 um but i just think that 2096 01:11:39,910 --> 01:11:38,239 that these scientists and 2097 01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:39,920 i'll give you an example i mean i won't 2098 01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:41,120 go into too much detail because i don't 2099 01:11:45,189 --> 01:11:43,120 feel comfortable doing it but i i there 2100 01:11:46,709 --> 01:11:45,199 was a very important person 2101 01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:46,719 that i met early on long before i knew 2102 01:11:50,229 --> 01:11:47,520 jim 2103 01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,239 and i and i remember that somebody that 2104 01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:52,400 was a very high-ranking person at a very 2105 01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:53,920 important government place said you 2106 01:11:56,630 --> 01:11:55,600 should meet this person he's a very 2107 01:11:59,189 --> 01:11:56,640 interesting 2108 01:12:00,709 --> 01:11:59,199 person very high ranking person and uh 2109 01:12:02,470 --> 01:12:00,719 and i said because i pitched this idea 2110 01:12:04,229 --> 01:12:02,480 of what to the stars could be and so 2111 01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:04,239 this person comes to san diego they put 2112 01:12:07,590 --> 01:12:06,000 me on the phone with this other person 2113 01:12:09,350 --> 01:12:07,600 and said hey this is tom and he's got 2114 01:12:11,350 --> 01:12:09,360 some great ideas about how to talk to 2115 01:12:13,510 --> 01:12:11,360 the youth about you know life in the 2116 01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:13,520 universe and so on this person on the 2117 01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,000 phone was like well there's no evidence 2118 01:12:20,470 --> 01:12:18,080 for that i don't believe in any of that 2119 01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:20,480 um it's just not my thing but why don't 2120 01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:22,880 you fly up tomorrow and come meet me you 2121 01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:24,640 know and i was like to talk about what 2122 01:12:28,390 --> 01:12:26,159 something that doesn't exist so i 2123 01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:28,400 remember this person was putting a visit 2124 01:12:33,270 --> 01:12:31,600 that you talked about on rogan 2125 01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:33,280 no this is something different 2126 01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:35,920 but it led to that and so this person 2127 01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:37,280 was just like it was a two-hour 2128 01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:39,280 conversation none of it's real none of 2129 01:12:42,709 --> 01:12:40,960 it exists but i want to hear what your 2130 01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:42,719 plan is or what you're trying to achieve 2131 01:12:48,630 --> 01:12:45,600 you know and i remember this person was 2132 01:12:50,470 --> 01:12:48,640 setting up a venture to look for life in 2133 01:12:53,270 --> 01:12:50,480 the universe somewhere with some really 2134 01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:53,280 cool technology and a lot of money um i 2135 01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:55,440 don't want to say too much um 2136 01:13:00,630 --> 01:12:58,480 and i was like you know sir you're 2137 01:13:02,630 --> 01:13:00,640 you're looking for life out there you 2138 01:13:04,709 --> 01:13:02,640 are raising all this money and you're 2139 01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:04,719 doing this great thing for humanity and 2140 01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:07,760 i believe it's out there i'm all but i 2141 01:13:11,430 --> 01:13:09,280 i want to talk about the ones that are 2142 01:13:13,030 --> 01:13:11,440 here i think young people need to know 2143 01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:13,040 about the ones that are here and i 2144 01:13:16,229 --> 01:13:14,800 remember banging on the table you know 2145 01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,239 because i knew that the meeting was kind 2146 01:13:19,590 --> 01:13:18,320 of varying after two hours like you know 2147 01:13:21,669 --> 01:13:19,600 it was gonna get shut down i was gonna 2148 01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:21,679 get anywhere so i got really full of 2149 01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:23,840 passion and i was like you want to look 2150 01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:26,400 out there great i need your help because 2151 01:13:30,550 --> 01:13:28,480 i want to discuss what's here the ones 2152 01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:30,560 here you know and then he took a deep 2153 01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:31,520 breath 2154 01:13:34,229 --> 01:13:32,960 and then he just looked at me and then 2155 01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:34,239 he and then he said he goes let's 2156 01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:36,239 introduce him to so-and-so and then the 2157 01:13:39,030 --> 01:13:37,679 other guy next to him turns his head and 2158 01:13:41,270 --> 01:13:39,040 he goes are you sure he goes yeah i'm 2159 01:13:42,390 --> 01:13:41,280 sure and that's how it led to that other 2160 01:13:44,550 --> 01:13:42,400 meeting and the next thing you know you 2161 01:13:45,990 --> 01:13:44,560 got these people gathering around that 2162 01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:46,000 want to talk about what's here but 2163 01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:47,520 they're very very limited on what they 2164 01:13:51,430 --> 01:13:49,600 can say so i have to like 2165 01:13:53,270 --> 01:13:51,440 kind of put things together and then 2166 01:13:55,910 --> 01:13:53,280 fortunately i meet jim and jim teaches 2167 01:13:57,830 --> 01:13:55,920 me a lot about how to absorb information 2168 01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:57,840 and how to digest it and how to hold 2169 01:14:01,030 --> 01:13:59,520 onto it even if it doesn't because it 2170 01:14:02,550 --> 01:14:01,040 doesn't have enough about it that means 2171 01:14:06,149 --> 01:14:02,560 anything yet but it might be important 2172 01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:06,159 later um i'm not him but i i'm trying to 2173 01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:09,199 learn as much as i can from him and so 2174 01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:11,679 it it the whole thing is just wild like 2175 01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:13,360 it it's very real and there's a 2176 01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:15,199 difference between what's out there and 2177 01:14:19,189 --> 01:14:17,840 what's here and it might be 2178 01:14:20,790 --> 01:14:19,199 there might be a lot more than that too 2179 01:14:23,270 --> 01:14:20,800 the universe is big you know there could 2180 01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:23,280 be infinite possibility out there 2181 01:14:29,430 --> 01:14:24,239 yeah 2182 01:14:31,750 --> 01:14:29,440 science and scientists in general 2183 01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:31,760 regarding this uap phenomenon 2184 01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:33,360 i feel so sorry for them in many 2185 01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:36,000 respects i am a huge fan of of the 2186 01:14:39,669 --> 01:14:38,000 galileo project i i just think it's 2187 01:14:41,110 --> 01:14:39,679 wonderful and i think 2188 01:14:42,550 --> 01:14:41,120 what he's going to be doing and what you 2189 01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:42,560 guys are all going to be doing with that 2190 01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:44,719 is is is really necessary i just 2191 01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:46,960 deployed how courageous you guys are 2192 01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:49,120 going out and doing that and and dr loeb 2193 01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:51,199 is doing that um 2194 01:14:56,149 --> 01:14:53,520 i i will say 2195 01:14:57,990 --> 01:14:56,159 i haven't met very many scientists uh 2196 01:14:59,669 --> 01:14:58,000 that are in that are doing something 2197 01:15:02,229 --> 01:14:59,679 like this or whether they're skeptics or 2198 01:15:04,149 --> 01:15:02,239 what have you that have a really 2199 01:15:05,830 --> 01:15:04,159 sound understanding of the literature 2200 01:15:08,149 --> 01:15:05,840 and the research that has been done over 2201 01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:08,159 the last 70 years on this topic i think 2202 01:15:10,630 --> 01:15:09,440 if they did they'd have a better 2203 01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:10,640 appreciation 2204 01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:12,239 uh for what they're going against or 2205 01:15:16,709 --> 01:15:15,280 what they're trying to figure out um 2206 01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:16,719 personally 2207 01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:18,320 based on my knowledge and based on what 2208 01:15:23,189 --> 01:15:20,480 i know i don't think we're ever going to 2209 01:15:24,950 --> 01:15:23,199 come to at least not in my lifetime i'm 2210 01:15:26,229 --> 01:15:24,960 an older guy now but 2211 01:15:27,910 --> 01:15:26,239 in my lifetime we're ever going to come 2212 01:15:30,310 --> 01:15:27,920 to any kind of conclusion about what 2213 01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:30,320 this phenomenon actually is i think it 2214 01:15:34,950 --> 01:15:32,960 encompasses a lot more than uaps 2215 01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:34,960 i think there's a huge trickster element 2216 01:15:37,110 --> 01:15:35,840 to it 2217 01:15:39,510 --> 01:15:37,120 um 2218 01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:39,520 i could go on uh you know but but i'll 2219 01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:42,000 just i'll just say that i i appreciate 2220 01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:43,760 the fact that science is doing this i 2221 01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:46,000 think eventually 2222 01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:48,480 science is going to have to 2223 01:15:51,830 --> 01:15:50,640 figure out another way to approach this 2224 01:15:53,750 --> 01:15:51,840 um 2225 01:15:55,990 --> 01:15:53,760 because as tom keeps mentioning 2226 01:15:58,470 --> 01:15:56,000 consciousness and what have you i i 2227 01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:58,480 spoke to a scientist once and and uh who 2228 01:16:01,669 --> 01:15:59,920 was very involved in this and i asked 2229 01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:01,679 him i said what do you think's behind 2230 01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:03,840 all this this this phenomenon and he 2231 01:16:06,870 --> 01:16:05,040 said it's somewhere in between 2232 01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:06,880 consciousness and you know a nexus of 2233 01:16:10,630 --> 01:16:08,640 consciousness and you know quantum 2234 01:16:11,590 --> 01:16:10,640 quantum theory quantum mechanics but 2235 01:16:13,030 --> 01:16:11,600 when you're talking about quantum 2236 01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:13,040 mechanics and you know when i ask you 2237 01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:15,520 about superpositioning or asking about 2238 01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:17,199 quantum entanglement or the particle 2239 01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:19,040 wave theory and what have you you can't 2240 01:16:22,709 --> 01:16:20,480 explain it scientists can't really 2241 01:16:24,310 --> 01:16:22,719 explain it but it's in a box it's in the 2242 01:16:25,910 --> 01:16:24,320 quantum theory box and it's a it's a 2243 01:16:27,510 --> 01:16:25,920 place they can put it and there's 2244 01:16:30,310 --> 01:16:27,520 something there but when you talk about 2245 01:16:33,590 --> 01:16:30,320 uaps there is no ontology there's 2246 01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:33,600 there's no right way there's no lexicon 2247 01:16:38,070 --> 01:16:35,760 that you can actually use to even begin 2248 01:16:40,310 --> 01:16:38,080 the discussion we can't even figure out 2249 01:16:42,070 --> 01:16:40,320 what questions to ask about this because 2250 01:16:44,950 --> 01:16:42,080 we don't know what it is there's no 2251 01:16:46,790 --> 01:16:44,960 there there as i said before and that's 2252 01:16:48,310 --> 01:16:46,800 what makes this extremely difficult and 2253 01:16:50,149 --> 01:16:48,320 i think that's why scientists many 2254 01:16:52,630 --> 01:16:50,159 scientists are extremely frustrated over 2255 01:16:53,990 --> 01:16:52,640 this the evidence there is some heart 2256 01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:54,000 evidence that i feel that's hard 2257 01:16:58,229 --> 01:16:55,760 evidence science some scientists don't 2258 01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:58,239 believe that's true but a lot of the a 2259 01:17:01,590 --> 01:16:59,840 lot of what we have is anecdotal and 2260 01:17:04,310 --> 01:17:01,600 they might call soft evidence but 2261 01:17:06,709 --> 01:17:04,320 nevertheless it's there as i said before 2262 01:17:07,990 --> 01:17:06,719 these tic tacs that were flying over the 2263 01:17:11,030 --> 01:17:08,000 nimitz 2264 01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:11,040 they're real they were absolutely 100 2265 01:17:14,229 --> 01:17:12,640 real and please don't tell me there are 2266 01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:14,239 sensor anomalies i know they weren't 2267 01:17:19,350 --> 01:17:16,640 sensor anomalies they were absolutely 2268 01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:19,360 real so what do you do with that 2269 01:17:23,430 --> 01:17:21,120 and so if you're a scientist you say 2270 01:17:25,189 --> 01:17:23,440 well show me you know i got to see them 2271 01:17:27,189 --> 01:17:25,199 again i got to take this is what i love 2272 01:17:29,030 --> 01:17:27,199 about the galileo project i want to take 2273 01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:29,040 a good picture 2274 01:17:33,830 --> 01:17:31,440 that is the perfect thing to say because 2275 01:17:35,669 --> 01:17:33,840 that's exactly what we need we need a 2276 01:17:37,590 --> 01:17:35,679 good picture first 2277 01:17:39,189 --> 01:17:37,600 and um there are some out there by the 2278 01:17:41,669 --> 01:17:39,199 way but um i don't know if we'll ever 2279 01:17:42,630 --> 01:17:41,679 see it are they classified they're great 2280 01:17:44,709 --> 01:17:42,640 pictures 2281 01:17:47,110 --> 01:17:44,719 and i think lou's even mentioned this a 2282 01:17:48,709 --> 01:17:47,120 couple times that 2283 01:17:51,189 --> 01:17:48,719 some of the evidence that we do have is 2284 01:17:53,189 --> 01:17:51,199 rather compelling and and uh but there 2285 01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:53,199 is um there's a problem with releasing 2286 01:17:57,189 --> 01:17:55,760 them uh regarding some of the uh uh 2287 01:17:58,950 --> 01:17:57,199 sensor systems that we have and you 2288 01:18:00,550 --> 01:17:58,960 can't give away 2289 01:18:02,149 --> 01:18:00,560 you know 2290 01:18:03,669 --> 01:18:02,159 yeah i have a question a quick question 2291 01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:03,679 about consciousness and this and then i 2292 01:18:06,470 --> 01:18:05,120 have to leave pretty soon or my wife 2293 01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:06,480 will kill okay okay so consciousness 2294 01:18:09,910 --> 01:18:08,480 this trickster element you mentioned now 2295 01:18:12,149 --> 01:18:09,920 at the same time there's also steve 2296 01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:12,159 greer i believe it's greer who said that 2297 01:18:16,470 --> 01:18:14,080 there's a project called ce5 or at least 2298 01:18:22,070 --> 01:18:19,590 technique of ce5 of connecting yourself 2299 01:18:23,990 --> 01:18:22,080 with an alien via some meditative 2300 01:18:25,990 --> 01:18:24,000 technique or perhaps even psychedelic 2301 01:18:28,149 --> 01:18:26,000 some trans state some abnormal 2302 01:18:32,870 --> 01:18:28,159 consciousness state altered state 2303 01:18:36,550 --> 01:18:34,790 well i think one thing about well let me 2304 01:18:39,350 --> 01:18:36,560 say one thing about stephen greer i i've 2305 01:18:40,790 --> 01:18:39,360 never met the man um i do take my hat 2306 01:18:42,149 --> 01:18:40,800 off to him he's done some incredible 2307 01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:42,159 work early on 2308 01:18:46,470 --> 01:18:44,320 uh he's not a big fan of our 2309 01:18:49,270 --> 01:18:46,480 organization at all and i'm not quite 2310 01:18:51,430 --> 01:18:49,280 sure why uh but he isn't 2311 01:18:52,709 --> 01:18:51,440 but as far as what he's doing with ce5 2312 01:18:55,750 --> 01:18:52,719 and what have you i 2313 01:18:57,990 --> 01:18:55,760 i don't have any comment on that i i i 2314 01:19:01,350 --> 01:18:58,000 don't go that far i mean it's 2315 01:19:04,070 --> 01:19:01,360 tom you wanna yeah my feeling um 2316 01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:04,080 is that you know again if you look at 2317 01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:05,760 just what we've done as human beings 2318 01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:07,040 over the past hundred years where it's 2319 01:19:10,630 --> 01:19:08,400 like we first you know we invent the 2320 01:19:12,630 --> 01:19:10,640 telephone and then radio waves and 2321 01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:12,640 communicating over different frequencies 2322 01:19:16,950 --> 01:19:15,120 and then we're able to tap phones and 2323 01:19:18,470 --> 01:19:16,960 we're able to tap you know hack into 2324 01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:18,480 radio whatever like you just look at the 2325 01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:20,080 progression that we're doing 2326 01:19:25,030 --> 01:19:23,360 i would bet money that down the line 2327 01:19:26,630 --> 01:19:25,040 when we're technologically advanced 2328 01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,640 we're going to not be hacking radio 2329 01:19:29,910 --> 01:19:28,320 waves we're going to be hacking minds 2330 01:19:32,550 --> 01:19:29,920 we're going to be listening in to what 2331 01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:32,560 people are thinking and 2332 01:19:36,229 --> 01:19:34,640 what is the loudest that someone can be 2333 01:19:38,310 --> 01:19:36,239 when they're thinking i would imagine 2334 01:19:40,310 --> 01:19:38,320 it's a group of people that are that are 2335 01:19:41,910 --> 01:19:40,320 meditating together they're all thinking 2336 01:19:42,950 --> 01:19:41,920 the same thing at the same moment you 2337 01:19:44,950 --> 01:19:42,960 know so it's almost like if you're 2338 01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:44,960 searching around for a light in the dark 2339 01:19:50,790 --> 01:19:47,920 that's a brighter light so part of me 2340 01:19:53,990 --> 01:19:50,800 really does subscribe to 2341 01:19:56,950 --> 01:19:54,000 um you know consciousness and meditation 2342 01:19:58,709 --> 01:19:56,960 and the focusing of one's mind on is 2343 01:20:01,669 --> 01:19:58,719 being something that 2344 01:20:03,270 --> 01:20:01,679 that something advanced could easily get 2345 01:20:04,950 --> 01:20:03,280 into i mean you when you look at the 2346 01:20:06,709 --> 01:20:04,960 evidence or you look at the data of the 2347 01:20:08,630 --> 01:20:06,719 people involved it's you know you can be 2348 01:20:10,550 --> 01:20:08,640 paralyzed or you hear voices in your 2349 01:20:11,910 --> 01:20:10,560 head or you know there's it's always 2350 01:20:13,990 --> 01:20:11,920 something to do 2351 01:20:17,189 --> 01:20:14,000 with you know kind of hacking the system 2352 01:20:19,830 --> 01:20:17,199 to a degree um so i i think that that's 2353 01:20:21,910 --> 01:20:19,840 all play is a big part of it and uh and 2354 01:20:22,950 --> 01:20:21,920 i definitely believe it you know i just 2355 01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:22,960 think that it needs to be studied 2356 01:20:26,310 --> 01:20:24,239 scientifically 2357 01:20:29,030 --> 01:20:26,320 yeah i agree i i don't discount what 2358 01:20:31,510 --> 01:20:29,040 stephen grier is saying i i i you know 2359 01:20:33,830 --> 01:20:31,520 it could possibly be true i just don't 2360 01:20:35,990 --> 01:20:33,840 know enough about it uh um 2361 01:20:41,590 --> 01:20:36,000 but 2362 01:20:43,030 --> 01:20:41,600 now when you uh we do have some 2363 01:20:44,550 --> 01:20:43,040 questions in the audience you want to 2364 01:20:45,430 --> 01:20:44,560 know how they can be involved what can 2365 01:20:47,270 --> 01:20:45,440 they do 2366 01:20:49,669 --> 01:20:47,280 obviously project galileo is privately 2367 01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:49,679 funded that's at harvard uh what what 2368 01:20:54,709 --> 01:20:52,000 about your endeavors guys what would you 2369 01:20:56,390 --> 01:20:54,719 like to turn to people to attention to 2370 01:20:58,470 --> 01:20:56,400 to get involved if they're interested in 2371 01:21:00,709 --> 01:20:58,480 joining this mission well we created a 2372 01:21:02,950 --> 01:21:00,719 public company a public benefit company 2373 01:21:04,630 --> 01:21:02,960 because a company so our goal was like 2374 01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:04,640 if we're going to do this we can't do 2375 01:21:08,229 --> 01:21:06,239 this where just a few people own it you 2376 01:21:10,630 --> 01:21:08,239 know so we have up for somewhere between 2377 01:21:13,189 --> 01:21:10,640 3 500 4 000 investors 2378 01:21:14,630 --> 01:21:13,199 where we let people come and be a part 2379 01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:14,640 of this and help grow the company so we 2380 01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:16,159 can do exactly this we can tell the 2381 01:21:19,350 --> 01:21:17,600 stories we can do the research we can 2382 01:21:21,510 --> 01:21:19,360 help push the government we can kind of 2383 01:21:25,669 --> 01:21:21,520 become a credible place to discuss this 2384 01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:25,679 stuff so that's one avenue support ttsa 2385 01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:28,560 you know be an owner of it with us um 2386 01:21:32,470 --> 01:21:30,560 and help us get the job done look what 2387 01:21:35,030 --> 01:21:32,480 we've done so far on very little the 2388 01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:35,040 second thing is i say this this is just 2389 01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:36,960 me talking this isn't a to the stars 2390 01:21:40,870 --> 01:21:38,880 position or anything don't let the 2391 01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:40,880 government um 2392 01:21:46,149 --> 01:21:44,320 sit quietly and and just go off and they 2393 01:21:47,510 --> 01:21:46,159 say one thing and then we just trust it 2394 01:21:49,910 --> 01:21:47,520 it's fine these are human beings that 2395 01:21:51,910 --> 01:21:49,920 work there that get distracted that get 2396 01:21:54,149 --> 01:21:51,920 overburdened with other jobs they got to 2397 01:21:55,430 --> 01:21:54,159 do that really there's not much in it 2398 01:21:56,709 --> 01:21:55,440 for these guys 2399 01:21:58,149 --> 01:21:56,719 you know that are working some of these 2400 01:21:59,510 --> 01:21:58,159 difficult issues to come out to start 2401 01:22:00,950 --> 01:21:59,520 talking about it and have everyone start 2402 01:22:02,229 --> 01:22:00,960 calling their office and like bugging 2403 01:22:03,430 --> 01:22:02,239 them and now they can't get their job 2404 01:22:05,189 --> 01:22:03,440 done and now they got to go brief a 2405 01:22:08,550 --> 01:22:05,199 bunch of senators that just want to be 2406 01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:08,560 on tv and get more votes but so you know 2407 01:22:13,830 --> 01:22:11,760 but i think that people need to not 2408 01:22:15,590 --> 01:22:13,840 let them live this down you know you got 2409 01:22:17,030 --> 01:22:15,600 to bring this up when they're 2410 01:22:18,870 --> 01:22:17,040 interviewing the president you got to 2411 01:22:20,310 --> 01:22:18,880 bring this up when they're when the 2412 01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:20,320 congressmen are having debates the 2413 01:22:23,669 --> 01:22:21,600 senators are having debates to get 2414 01:22:25,669 --> 01:22:23,679 reelected you got to bring this up in 2415 01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:25,679 the press environment you know when the 2416 01:22:29,669 --> 01:22:27,679 when the the pr person is talking for 2417 01:22:31,030 --> 01:22:29,679 the dod or talking for the cia or 2418 01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:31,040 talking for 2419 01:22:36,229 --> 01:22:33,600 uh any place that might have stakes in 2420 01:22:37,990 --> 01:22:36,239 this but when we're quiet and complacent 2421 01:22:40,310 --> 01:22:38,000 and just read a report that it's all 2422 01:22:42,870 --> 01:22:40,320 real but we don't really like follow up 2423 01:22:45,110 --> 01:22:42,880 blows my mind i mean it blows my mind 2424 01:22:47,669 --> 01:22:45,120 that people are not beating down the 2425 01:22:49,990 --> 01:22:47,679 door right now going wait what this is 2426 01:22:52,629 --> 01:22:50,000 real how much do you really know that 2427 01:22:54,070 --> 01:22:52,639 you're not telling us well in my own 2428 01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:54,080 personal opinion i think they know a 2429 01:22:57,430 --> 01:22:56,080 hell of a lot more than we know and i 2430 01:22:59,830 --> 01:22:57,440 think they have a hell of a good reason 2431 01:23:02,790 --> 01:22:59,840 probably for not talking about all of it 2432 01:23:04,629 --> 01:23:02,800 i i i because in my experience 2433 01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:04,639 with all these government guys they're 2434 01:23:09,830 --> 01:23:07,600 all really good people and they're smart 2435 01:23:12,310 --> 01:23:09,840 and they're ethical they're humans and 2436 01:23:14,310 --> 01:23:12,320 make mistakes uh and new laws get 2437 01:23:16,149 --> 01:23:14,320 created for more oversight and so on so 2438 01:23:18,790 --> 01:23:16,159 we don't have a repeat of the mk ultra 2439 01:23:20,790 --> 01:23:18,800 stuff or whatever but i've met a lot of 2440 01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:20,800 these people and a lot of them are just 2441 01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:23,360 bound by the the by the ethics or the 2442 01:23:27,110 --> 01:23:25,120 rules of how it works it's like they 2443 01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:27,120 create a black program but there's no 2444 01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:29,600 part of a classified program that i know 2445 01:23:32,870 --> 01:23:31,199 of that's ever been spoken of where it's 2446 01:23:34,709 --> 01:23:32,880 kind of like okay now comes the part 2447 01:23:36,629 --> 01:23:34,719 where we tell everybody about it it just 2448 01:23:38,310 --> 01:23:36,639 doesn't exist so then how do you tell 2449 01:23:40,070 --> 01:23:38,320 everybody about it i mean jim can talk 2450 01:23:41,430 --> 01:23:40,080 about it better than i can but the only 2451 01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:41,440 way is pressure pressure pressure 2452 01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:43,920 pressure pressure and then finally they 2453 01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:45,360 they have to act for the will of the 2454 01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:47,199 people and so 2455 01:23:51,030 --> 01:23:48,719 yeah that's what you need to do don't 2456 01:23:52,229 --> 01:23:51,040 let them down don't let it go quietly 2457 01:23:54,070 --> 01:23:52,239 no no and 2458 01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:54,080 i couldn't agree with tom anymore i mean 2459 01:23:57,830 --> 01:23:55,760 it's he's absolutely right in what he 2460 01:24:00,390 --> 01:23:57,840 just said and uh you know this is one of 2461 01:24:02,709 --> 01:24:00,400 the reasons we we formed ttsa i remember 2462 01:24:04,629 --> 01:24:02,719 i remember talking with lou uh when he 2463 01:24:06,229 --> 01:24:04,639 was on the task force and being in the 2464 01:24:07,910 --> 01:24:06,239 pentagon and talking to some of the 2465 01:24:09,590 --> 01:24:07,920 officers there uh they were very 2466 01:24:11,030 --> 01:24:09,600 concerned about this phenomenon they you 2467 01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:11,040 know they knew it was real they just 2468 01:24:15,110 --> 01:24:12,719 didn't know what to do about it and i 2469 01:24:16,629 --> 01:24:15,120 kept telling them you know look you know 2470 01:24:18,870 --> 01:24:16,639 you got to go you got to go public with 2471 01:24:21,270 --> 01:24:18,880 this and if you can't go public 2472 01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:21,280 you know you know we i just formed a 2473 01:24:24,070 --> 01:24:22,800 company with tom delong and i said we're 2474 01:24:25,669 --> 01:24:24,080 going to take this private we're going 2475 01:24:28,390 --> 01:24:25,679 to go to the private sector because the 2476 01:24:31,030 --> 01:24:28,400 government does not own this data the 2477 01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:31,040 government doesn't own uaps or the study 2478 01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:33,120 of uaps or the research it belongs to 2479 01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:35,280 everybody it doesn't just appear to 2480 01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:37,199 carry your strike groups it appears 2481 01:24:41,350 --> 01:24:38,960 everywhere to all people around the 2482 01:24:44,390 --> 01:24:41,360 world it's appearing in argentina and 2483 01:24:47,189 --> 01:24:44,400 china you know in bangladesh so 2484 01:24:48,629 --> 01:24:47,199 we really as as human beings have to get 2485 01:24:50,709 --> 01:24:48,639 together and that's when we said we're 2486 01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:50,719 taking this private and and we will we 2487 01:24:54,629 --> 01:24:52,800 won't discuss classified information but 2488 01:24:56,470 --> 01:24:54,639 we are going private the public has to 2489 01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:56,480 be more informed about this and let them 2490 01:25:00,790 --> 01:24:58,880 know that their consensus reality the 2491 01:25:02,149 --> 01:25:00,800 reality we all agree on 2492 01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:02,159 isn't 2493 01:25:06,310 --> 01:25:04,320 quite right um there's something else 2494 01:25:08,310 --> 01:25:06,320 going on and we really truly have to 2495 01:25:10,470 --> 01:25:08,320 figure that out because that's what we 2496 01:25:12,149 --> 01:25:10,480 do as human beings 2497 01:25:13,990 --> 01:25:12,159 well guys thank you so much i'll let it 2498 01:25:16,149 --> 01:25:14,000 go with that and i really do have to 2499 01:25:18,709 --> 01:25:16,159 leave and i i really enjoying this very 2500 01:25:20,709 --> 01:25:18,719 very much and i'm enjoying it as well 2501 01:25:22,070 --> 01:25:20,719 yeah let's do a part two jim let's do it 2502 01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,080 again i'll be more than happy to do it 2503 01:25:26,870 --> 01:25:24,159 again with you guys yeah it would be fun 2504 01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:26,880 in doing doing and doing another one um 2505 01:25:31,030 --> 01:25:28,719 but digging into 2506 01:25:32,390 --> 01:25:31,040 not so much you know is it real and what 2507 01:25:34,070 --> 01:25:32,400 the government's doing or not but really 2508 01:25:35,510 --> 01:25:34,080 just let's dig into 2509 01:25:37,270 --> 01:25:35,520 you know what it's 2510 01:25:38,950 --> 01:25:37,280 you know something more about what it's 2511 01:25:40,390 --> 01:25:38,960 about what it's doing or like something 2512 01:25:42,390 --> 01:25:40,400 that's not just government because jim 2513 01:25:43,990 --> 01:25:42,400 has a lot of knowledge that's right yeah 2514 01:25:45,910 --> 01:25:44,000 that would be a really 2515 01:25:48,790 --> 01:25:45,920 yeah the physics implication yeah young 2516 01:25:50,870 --> 01:25:48,800 people interested in thinking big look 2517 01:25:52,950 --> 01:25:50,880 sometimes it borders on sci-fi sometimes 2518 01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:52,960 it has a stigma but nevertheless if we 2519 01:25:57,590 --> 01:25:55,600 can inspire just one mind as they say to 2520 01:26:00,550 --> 01:25:57,600 take physics seriously to learn and with 2521 01:26:02,790 --> 01:26:00,560 the artist eye of tom with the patriotic 2522 01:26:04,470 --> 01:26:02,800 eye of jim with the inquisitive nature 2523 01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:04,480 of kurt and maybe with the scientists 2524 01:26:07,669 --> 01:26:06,080 perspective that i'm trying to bring i 2525 01:26:10,149 --> 01:26:07,679 think we're doing a good service so i'd 2526 01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:10,159 love to do that again guys uh tom thank 2527 01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:11,760 you so much for your generosity love 2528 01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:13,600 your work uh thank you big fan maybe 2529 01:26:16,470 --> 01:26:14,800 kurt next time you'll take out your 2530 01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:16,480 guitar and you'll teach thompson's 2531 01:26:19,350 --> 01:26:17,760 chords or something man that would be 2532 01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:19,360 dude i only know three chords i'm in a 2533 01:26:23,030 --> 01:26:20,960 punk band i mean we don't know any more 2534 01:26:24,790 --> 01:26:23,040 than three so that's what we do oh we 2535 01:26:26,709 --> 01:26:24,800 love you man and uh kurt thank you so 2536 01:26:27,830 --> 01:26:26,719 much brother and jim it's honor and a 2537 01:26:30,550 --> 01:26:27,840 pleasure thank you for your service to 2538 01:26:33,590 --> 01:26:30,560 the country tom thank you so much 2539 01:26:35,350 --> 01:26:33,600 thank you guys bye guys hey bye guys bye 2540 01:26:37,350 --> 01:26:35,360 bye bye 2541 01:26:39,030 --> 01:26:37,360 the podcast is now finished if you'd 2542 01:26:42,229 --> 01:26:39,040 like to support conversations like this 2543 01:26:46,310 --> 01:26:42,239 then do consider going to patreon.com 2544 01:26:48,950 --> 01:26:46,320 c-u-r-t j-a-i-m-u-n-g-a-l 2545 01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:48,960 that is kurt jaimungle it's support from 2546 01:26:52,550 --> 01:26:50,719 the patrons 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